Does going to university make you middle class?

[PrincessGraceKelly]

I feel a bit nervous about starting this discussion () as I know threads on social class can get a bit heated but I find it all fascinating from a sociological perspective.

When I was studying A-levels one of our tutors told the class that graduating from university makes you middle class.

Do you agree?

I don't think that going to university makes you a different social class per se, however I have found that going to university has changed me a lot, more than I expected it to. I grew up working class. We were on benefits, lived in a council house, entitled to free school meals, etc. I went to a secondary school where getting good grades was something to be embarrassed about and even considering revising for your GCSEs meant you were a geek. However I did revise and went on to university. I have been studying at university for the last five years. I did my undergraduate degree, followed by a master's and now a PhD. When I first started at university I found it very daunting and definitely experienced a bit of a culture shock. Nearly everyone in my halls of residence had been to private school and seemed to know each other already because of going to the same school or indirectly e.g. a friend of a friend. However I soon settled in and adjusted and my confidence grew. Now I never really think about it when with my peers.

I'm not sure you can change classes yourself? I'm definitely working class (and proud of it) but went to Uni and now have a good job.

DS however I guess is middle class. Two professional parents with degrees.

I get what a pp said about being a hybrid. Where I work they are all middle class and there are many differences in outlook. They take so many things for granted that just weren't options for me (gap years, travel, private schools, expensive hobbies) but DS may well take them for granted too.

I think we now talk about middle class as an income bracket, not what your parents did. You also seem to be able to jump class if you marry someone who earns well. At least that’s how it works here 🤷‍♀️

I find this very interesting, but ive no idea where dh and i fall

We didn’t go to uni but ds1 has and ds2 intends to

Dh earns a good wage and we live in a nice house in a nice village, the children have had a fair few opportunities like horse riding and sailing (thank fuck they didn’t want to continue) so i guess they are definitely middle class

But I don’t know if dh and I would be considered working class

I knew someone who insisted he was working class, he even told me he lived in a two up two down...it had three bloody bedrooms! Four if you include the attic extension

Oh should say that I would think dh and i would be middle class and i bet everyone i know would say the same about us

@blacksax *Why does it matter to you OP?

Is it to do with how you perceive yourself and where you belong, or is it related to how you think other people will view you?*

In the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter to me at all and is something that on a day-to-day basis never really crosses my mind. However I do think going from being at university to being back home with my family during the lockdown has caused me to feel a bit of a weird unbalanced feeling in my identity which is why I started this thread.

Even before university I felt a bit like this. When I was at school the only rumour that ever got started about me was that my parents were very wealthy. I have idea how that rumour got started and vehemently denied it but I always felt uncomfortable knowing I was one of the poorest in the year group, not the type of thing I wanted to announce to everyone to dispel the rumour. I feel like even though I grew up working class I was sheltered from a lot of things outside of my school experience. For example, when I turned 18 and went to typical working class pubs in my hometown with friends I felt very uncomfortable and out of place (I hope that doesn't sound snobby, I don't mean it to).

However, at the same time, when I was younger I had a childhood best friend who was not allowed to invite me to their home because I was poor (it was confirmed by my friend that that was the reason when we were teenagers). I found that very hurtful and I think that has caused me to link being working class with feeling inferior. I feel like when people find out my background they will judge me.

@MrsMGE It is definitely something I would never discuss in real life as I do think discussing it is openly is taboo in the UK too. It is hard to understand and quite subtle at times and I think that is why I find it so interesting. People can use something as benign as what newspaper you read to estimate what class you are and I find that so fascinating.

No I don’t think it does. You’ll find a whole range of backgrounds at university and everyone doesn’t just become mc by virtue of being there.

I was younger I had a childhood best friend who was not allowed to invite me to their home because I was poor

There were middle class families in my village who wouldn't let their kids play with us, though I was occasionally treated as an exemption because I was clever.

And then you have the upper classes who have fallen on hard times trying to defend their situation by maintaining their family used to be of some financial worth and importance and so therefore they are still better than other poor people.

Ritzspy - who has done this?

I think it matters less and less what "class" you are, as so many families are mixed in terms of generational backgrounds, current status, countries of birth etc etc.

I am always intrigued by my own family, and how we would be categorised. We (I think) are very much upper middle (or lower upper - who knows), but neither of us university educated, basically because neither of us could be bothered, but we are both very bright, and successful. One parent from a old, landed, pretty wealthy foreign family, grandparents didn't work, they owned. Other grandparents English "gentlemen" farmers. Other parent from an industrial poor background, grandparents all council homed, but child worked up to CEO of FTSE company.

So really mixed backgrounds, and actually it never comes up in conversation. Everyone just assumes we are university educated because of the way are, and the way we live.

No. It makes you someone who's been to university.

Some degrees are valuable, some are completely pointless.

Yes, realistically. Although some people will do anything to cling to their working class roots...

FWIW - my family's a mixture of both w/c and m/c - I've lived in a 'top professional' type area - 4 bedroom detached homes in an affluent postcode and also for several years in one of the country's most deprived areas following a traumatic incident and an episode of low self esteem.

@justanotherneighinparadise not in the UK. It's still based mostly on cultural capital. If you look at the new classes from the BBC link on the thread it still shows a strong link to this.

I had a discussion with my DP about this while watching an American show as he pointed out this is why Americans don't understand the British class system. Both partners on the married couple had middle class jobs and were graduates, but only the woman came from a middle class family.

@RufustheLanglovingreindeer do the BBC quiz.

I find the obsession with class really weird actually. I've no idea what I am and it doesn't matter one iota. I'm just as comfortable boozing in a rough pub as I am at the opera. If you aren't, OP, then I'd suggest it's a confidence issue rather than anything to do with what class you are.

I hate the way it is often implied too that folk are middle class and too good to enjoy or experience something working class because they're more educated or wealthy. I know it works the other way too. It's all a load of nonsense.

And of course you like, do, think and say different things as an adult to when you were a teenager.

he pointed out this is why Americans don't understand the British class system

Most Brits don't understand the British class system, what with it making zero sense and no objective definitions on what makes a person middle or working class.

The BBC quiz puts me as either elite or various versions of middle class, depending on subtle differences on how I answer the 'what are your interests' and 'who do you know socially' sections, as it seems to set a great store on me being a homeowner with a decent public sector pension that actuarily is worth a fortune.

However I am obviously none of those and no-one who claims to know all the class markers would define me as once they'd met me and heard my regional accent, knew about where I live, family background etc.

I hate the way it is often implied too that folk are middle class and too good to enjoy or experience something working class because they're more educated or wealthy. I know it works the other way too. It's all a load of nonsense

^^ This, and the other way round, that working class people don't consider education important and are not interested in worthy things like reading, museums or the arts and prefer reality TV, soaps and AI holidays in places like Benidorm. Again, total nonsense.

beforeiputonmymakeup

I think i did that a while back

I think that i came out as elite...but i think part of that was going to the theatre 😳 oh and household money etc

Oh I’ve just seen barbara saying similar

To get an idea of your class: which social club would you feel uncomfortable walking into?

Merry

The Conservative Club.

A football club or a busy loud pub full of binge drinkers/football fans/tabloid readers/Brexit voters.

Not adverse to having a drink and a laugh, and I certainly do, but not with the types of people that the above would attract.

I don’t think I’d feel uncomfortable Walking into any social clubs

Certainly not ones i was allowed into if you see what i mean

Interesting thought though merry ill have to have a proper think

@PrincessGraceKelly we had a friend whose mother didn’t approve of us - thought we had no manners - only met us once at her 10th birthday party and thought that we weren’t good enough.

Thinking that didn’t make her any better than us - she was not of a higher social standing, she was an insecure snob - her thinking that she was better than everyone else in the village didn’t make it so. But she had a hard life -her husband had quite an extreme and public alcohol problem and I think her being snobby was her way of dealing with the public shame - even when I was 10 years old I understood it was her problem not mine.

I think that the expectation to go to uni WAS middle class, working classes often studied in the evening or did apprenticeships.

My aunt became a 'nurse cadet' at 15, she lived in the nurses' accomodation and took the O levels she needed for nursin then did an SRN course. These days nurses have to get a degree.

I wouldn’t feel comfortable in The conservative club or a football pub - not my tribe - wouldn’t stay for a second. Prefer somewhere more mixed.

I think that the expectation to go to uni WAS middle class, working classes often studied in the evening or did apprenticeships

Traditionally, that was due to economic necessity. Several of my parents/grandparents certainly had the ability to study at university, but were of an age and background where you left school at 15 and started work in the mines, factory, shop or maybe as an office/bank clerk the next day.

No-one could afford to not start earning until their early 20s as I assume that there were no grants available (when did student grants start? I'm talking about my parents and grandparents who would have started work in the 1930/40/50/60s). People needed their young adult DC to be contributing to the household, not studying.

But certainly by the time I was that age in the late 1980s, there was an expectation that most people with the academic ability went to university at my perfectly average working class comprehensive (maybe about 20-30% of students went into the sixth form and most of those went to university).

Not anymore, but back in the day though!! So admirable of you bettering your life like that!! X