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Original poster

Does going to university make you middle class?

177 replies

PrincessGraceKelly · 17/05/2020 22:55

I feel a bit nervous about starting this discussion (Blush) as I know threads on social class can get a bit heated but I find it all fascinating from a sociological perspective.

When I was studying A-levels one of our tutors told the class that graduating from university makes you middle class.

Do you agree?

I don't think that going to university makes you a different social class per se, however I have found that going to university has changed me a lot, more than I expected it to. I grew up working class. We were on benefits, lived in a council house, entitled to free school meals, etc. I went to a secondary school where getting good grades was something to be embarrassed about and even considering revising for your GCSEs meant you were a geek. However I did revise and went on to university. I have been studying at university for the last five years. I did my undergraduate degree, followed by a master's and now a PhD. When I first started at university I found it very daunting and definitely experienced a bit of a culture shock. Nearly everyone in my halls of residence had been to private school and seemed to know each other already because of going to the same school or indirectly e.g. a friend of a friend. However I soon settled in and adjusted and my confidence grew. Now I never really think about it when with my peers.

OP posts:
Bubblebee7 · 19/05/2020 12:02

Ok sorry about.

lemonsandlimes123 · 19/05/2020 12:15

The thing is you can't really change your class. If you come from a wc background and were first in your family to go to Uni then you are likely to still be perceived as wc no matter what your lifestyle and academic achievements are. Your children on the other hand are likely to be solidly middle class. I have friends like this, although they have all the outward markers of being mc they still 'read' to me as firmly working class.

Iwalkinmyclothing · 19/05/2020 12:37

No, I'm sorry @Bubblebee7 , I'm just being a stroppy bitch today (and most days lately). Ignore me.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Higher education
isseywith4vampirecats · 19/05/2020 13:14

I asked my OH who came from working class background and went through education up to PHD in science subjects and he says he is working class as that's his upbringing even though he has done what would be classed as middle class jobs ever since

BossAssBitch · 19/05/2020 13:37

This should help work it out...

www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/victorians/middle_classes_01.shtml

PorpentiaScamander · 19/05/2020 15:32

Well of course intelligent people sometimes lack common sense.
The point I was making (badly I think) was that some people assume a posh accent means you are intelligent. My friend is very posh and not intelligent. The no common sense was a added as a caveat before people told me there were other markers of intelligence other than school grades.
Anyway that's all totally off topic.

My original comment of "class is bollocks" remains.

RitzSpy · 19/05/2020 15:40

No, I'm sorry @Bubblebee7 , I'm just being a stroppy bitch today (and most days lately). Ignore me. Lovely, refreshing piece of honesty.❤️

Iamthewombat · 19/05/2020 21:25

I also think my temperament betrays my roots a little - where I grew up you needed to be tough so that people didn’t mess with you. I have a good resting bitch face, and I’m prone to outbursts that I don’t think my MC peers would be

This is so true, and is a very perceptive remark.

Irrespective of how much money you earn or how clever you are, being accepted by the middle classes - who are the people interviewing, and handing out jobs, and are able to give people chances - is all about codes of behaviour and shibboleths.

If you were lucky, you learned those things at university. Not everyone does now, because there are more establishments called universities at which working class kids don’t get to mix with people from different backgrounds and get their corners knocked off.

Which isn’t to say that changing your class is an end in itself, but people in positions of power appoint and favour people like them. The poster who made the comment about temperament spotted that the way she learned to behave isn’t acceptable to the people capable of giving her prestigious jobs and promoting her. She was smart enough to see it as a result of mixing with those people.

Iamthewombat · 19/05/2020 21:30

Also, for the people claiming that they will always be working class come what may: nonsense. I’ve still got a strong Manchester accent and I grew up on a council estate. For me to pretend to be working class now would be ludicrous. I’m a chartered accountant who plays violin, speaks French fluently, runs a book club and lives in a posh village. Pretending to be what I’m not to satisfy some stupid urge to prove that I’m ‘real’ or ‘true to my roots’ would be disingenuous and affected.

Hunnybears · 19/05/2020 22:30

@lamthewombat

Also, for the people claiming that they will always be working class come what may: nonsense. I’ve still got a strong Manchester accent and I grew up on a council estate. For me to pretend to be working class now would be ludicrous. I’m a chartered accountant who plays violin, speaks French fluently, runs a book club and lives in a posh village. Pretending to be what I’m not to satisfy some stupid urge to prove that I’m ‘real’ or ‘true to my roots’ would be disingenuous and affected

Well according to a pp, she wouldn’t class a charted accountant as a middle class job.... 😐 (I think of is)

RitzSpy · 19/05/2020 23:22

Even if the class system exists why would you defend it? It’s just weird to be wealthy yet somehow proud you are still working class while shitting on your class by paying them crap wages.

And then you have the upper classes who have fallen on hard times trying to defend their situation by maintaining their family used to be of some financial worth and importance and so therefore they are still better than other poor people.

Whilst the middle classes come in somewhere between the two sides...what a load of ole shite it is.

But unfortunately white rich men employ people in their likeness, those employees do likewise and so the Club/system continues, breaking into the club means you are more likely to succeed - your face has to fits,

IdblowJonSnow · 19/05/2020 23:31

I felt more middle class after university and then more so following an extended period of travelling. But sadly I have never had a very good job. I feel stuck in the middle. If I'm with people who are solidly middle class I feel inadequate (because they're all very confident and successful) and if I'm with working class people they often think I'm a snob because they perceive me to be well spoken and I occasionally shop at Waitrose!
My kids and DH are definitely middle class.
I don't know why we still care about the class thing. It's bollocks really.

shookbelves · 19/05/2020 23:32

In a word? No.

blacksax · 19/05/2020 23:36

Why does it matter to you OP?

Is it to do with how you perceive yourself and where you belong, or is it related to how you think other people will view you?

BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup · 19/05/2020 23:53

OP it use to be if you grew up working class and went to university then your degree would make you lower middle class. However as loads more people got degrees plus tradesmen and footballers can out earn teachers, pharmacists and other jobs traditionally categorised as middle class then they re-categorised people.

BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup · 19/05/2020 23:59

@Purplesndteal in the UK class was never done on how much money you have.

So a premiership footballer whose children had the same stuff you grew up with would still be working class. There as an aristocrat with loads of debts due to their title would be upper class.

What is funny is that aristocrats and working class would get on as one would work for the other and/or share the same interests, there as the middle classes would worry about losing face if they didn't do things properly.

Iamthewombat · 20/05/2020 00:04

Even if the class system exists why would you defend it?

Whilst my answer doesn’t address the precise question you asked in your full post, I worked out that if I couldn’t beat the system I had to work within it. That’s sort of defending it, I suppose.

I saw very quickly that sticking with some of the behaviours I’d learned growing up weren’t going to get me very far with the people who held the power: interviewers, bosses, people who I wanted to loan me money for a house, people in posh shops, doctors etc. So I adapted, learning from those people and peop,e like them I encountered at university. That’s a defence of the class system.

Was I betraying my roots by changing and using what I has learned from the middle classes to my advantage? Probably. Would I do it again? Yes. It got me into a big four accountancy firm and a series of well-paid jobs.

Raella50 · 20/05/2020 00:30

Hmmm class is such a funny thing. I would describe myself as mc but DH as wc but I’m not really sure why because we both went to uni and have good jobs, we obviously live in the same house, share friends and lead the same lifestyle together. However I grew up in the posh postcode and he grew up in the less nice one. His parents were from a council estate but mine weren’t and my dad went to uni. I have an RP accent and his is quite broad. He watches football at the pub with his mates and I enjoy visiting wine bars with mine.

MissMarks · 20/05/2020 00:49

It’s not just about accents though- it is also about grammar and how people converse. I work with some truly salt of the earth type people and beyond the broad accent the language they use is very different to the traditional middle class people I also know socially.

Ilovecats14 · 20/05/2020 01:51

My 3 siblings went to university and I didn't but i earn more than them, though I know they may possibly overtake me one day! They are definately not middle class though.

CovidicusRex · 20/05/2020 02:15

No. Class is a cultural thing. It sounds like you might have culturally shifted into the middle class but going to university sone isn’t going to do that to a person.

TabbyStar · 20/05/2020 07:26

One of the things I ponder on sometimes is that although in many ways I've made it to three middle classes in terms of education, job, cultural interests, I'd say a lot of my communication style is more traditionally working class, and although my DD17 has had an almost middle class upbringing, her social group is all working class, and so that makes me think that class is more pervasive than superficial hobbies and education.

Iamthewombat · 20/05/2020 07:32

The point of the OP’s question was whether going to university could cause that shift to happen. In the past it did, because kids from poorer backgrounds got to learn the ways of middle classness from fellow students.

It probably still happens at prestigious universities, which attract a disproportionate number of students from wealthier backgrounds and fee paying schools.

Camomila · 20/05/2020 08:10

although my DD17 has had an almost middle class upbringing, her social group is all working class, and so that makes me think that class is more pervasive than superficial hobbies and education.

Interesting, DH and I made lots of friends from different backgrounds at uni, but the ones we've stayed closest too mainly came from similar 'average' backgrounds as us - I guess we could all emphasize with each other more easily.

MrsMGE · 20/05/2020 08:22

OP, I find this whole "class system" in the UK baffling, tbh. By UK standards, I am probably middle class although my parents have never made me feel that way and indeed, talking about this it is frowned upon and considered bad taste where I come from. I have friends from all sorts of backgrounds and we always knew whose family was better educated, better off etc., but it never really mattered. Everyone was just doing their best and trying to suceed in their own ways - isn't this what really matters? I don't understand this British obsession with belonging and defining yourselves through the class system at all, I find it so outdated and consider it a self-imposed barrier to moving forward. Just push yourself to be the best you can be, which you clearly are doing.