Does going to university make you middle class?

[PrincessGraceKelly]

I feel a bit nervous about starting this discussion () as I know threads on social class can get a bit heated but I find it all fascinating from a sociological perspective.

When I was studying A-levels one of our tutors told the class that graduating from university makes you middle class.

Do you agree?

I don't think that going to university makes you a different social class per se, however I have found that going to university has changed me a lot, more than I expected it to. I grew up working class. We were on benefits, lived in a council house, entitled to free school meals, etc. I went to a secondary school where getting good grades was something to be embarrassed about and even considering revising for your GCSEs meant you were a geek. However I did revise and went on to university. I have been studying at university for the last five years. I did my undergraduate degree, followed by a master's and now a PhD. When I first started at university I found it very daunting and definitely experienced a bit of a culture shock. Nearly everyone in my halls of residence had been to private school and seemed to know each other already because of going to the same school or indirectly e.g. a friend of a friend. However I soon settled in and adjusted and my confidence grew. Now I never really think about it when with my peers.

Nah.

Me & DCs all have degrees and we are Working Class.

One of my best friends studied maths at St Andrews. I mean, you can’t compare that to studying wildlife studies at former polytechnic with all due respect.

You would struggle to find a more difficult course at a highly respected university. If I’m not mistaken they got a first class honours 😳

But they still identify as working class....

@Hunnybears I work with or have friends in all of those jobs and don’t consider any of them middle class.

I grew up working class and still define myself as such really, though some things about my life are culturally more middle class - I recognise that because of my education I feel comfortable in places where other friends family members don't. But I also fall quite easily into working class banter that I've seen middle class friends feel intimidated by. People say sometimes they think I'm intimidating until they know me better, but again I think that's partly working class directness.

There isn't anyone in my family I can turn to for advice about some things, e.g. recently DD's university choices because I am the only one with that experience, and I do sometimes think they think I am a bit "up myself".

I've also learned a lot recently about my family's experience of extreme poverty and trauma, and that has massively shaped who I am.

@RJnomore1

I work with or have friends in all of those jobs and don’t consider any of them middle class

Oh that’s really interesting AJ. Do you mean the people or the jobs that you wouldn’t class as middle class? What jobs would you consider middle class out of curiosity?

I mean RJ 😬

@Hunnybears, what is your point? That the degree is a highly respected one and the institution prestigious is irrelevant. Your friend is clever. That has no correlation with her class status. It’s perfectly possible to be working class, clever, and to have a First in Maths from St Andrews.

You can be middle class if you want to be - it's just a set of social behaviours that you will need to learn - so if you value them..off you go, if not don't bother. You'll find most people who are fun to spend time with don't bother, they are a hybrid of values - aka their own.

@Frangible

what is your point? That the degree is a highly respected one and the institution prestigious is irrelevant. Your friend is clever. That has no correlation with her class status. It’s perfectly possible to be working class, clever, and to have a First in Maths from St Andrews

Well my point is exactly what you’ve just said....! the OP asked if going to uni makes you middle class and my answer is no, not necessarily.

I was illustrating that there’s even ‘snobbery’ regarding what university and course people study. Going to uni isn’t enough, you have to go to a RG or even better to affirm true status in life 🙄

I've learnt most of what I know about social class from Mumsnet. And I still don't understand it. I think a lot of the time it boils down to your accent tbh. That's basically how people judge your class.

So true @bluebooby

You could have someone with RP accent and straight away judgments will be made. You can bet working class wouldn’t be the first thing that comes to mind.

It's an odd one as we define our class as the one we are born into.
I'm born working class, yet been to four RG unis( only mention that as mentioned in a PP), yet cannot see myself as middle class.

I did not meet any other person in any of the diyr who had also been brought up by benefits in social housing.

Tale journalists like Caitlin Moran and Julie Burchill, both very well off now but still identify as working class.

Does it flat caps and whippets. Haven't RTFT, but that's this working-class graduate's opinion on t'matter.

Also, why is Mumsnet so freaking obsessed with class at the moment?

Of course there’s a ranking of universities, and of individual degree courses, @Hunnybears. If you want to specialise in medieval English literature, you will choose a different institution to someone who wants to focus on postmodernism. But whether you attend Oxbridge, Durham or the University of Bedfordshire, it may have a significant impact on your post-university opportunities, but it’s not in itself going to make you any more or less middle-class.

Simply going to university doesn't change your class. However, I think becoming more educated, having a career, owning property, etc starts to change your class. My mother was born into a working class family but through education, career and marriage I think she would be considered upper middle class now.

No because class is a load of bollocks.

The only people I've met in real life who carr about class think they are more important/special than they are and use their perceived middleclass-ness as a reason to look down on others.

In socioeconomics class is defined by the job you do.

@Frangible

Of course there’s a ranking of universities, and of individual degree courses, @Hunnybears. If you want to specialise in medieval English literature, you will choose a different institution to someone who wants to focus on postmodernism. But whether you attend Oxbridge, Durham or the University of Bedfordshire, it may have a significant impact on your post-university opportunities, but it’s not in itself going to make you any more or less middle-class

I never said it would..... 🤷‍♀️ I’m not really sure what you’re getting at?! I’m agreeing with what you’re saying. No, a degree doesn’t make you middle class at all. I agree with that.😳

I was giving an example of how elitism often goes have in hand with what institution someone studied as if it gives them higher class ‘status’. That’s in fact a load of rubbish. If you’re deemed intelligent enough you’ll get in to the elite universities.

Class is irrelevant if someone hasn’t got the intellectual capacity.

Which is why I brought up my friend from At Andrews. She’s very clever. It doesn’t chance her class.

Full of typo errors but you know what I mean 😂

See I think a 'middle/upper' class person might not notice class differences, but a WC person does 🤷‍♀️

You can be middle class if you want to be - it's just a set of social behaviours that you will need to learn

So what are these then? People usually cite a list that apply to many people from all backgrounds, yet people who identify as middle class claim do not apply to the working classes and the middle classes use these behaviours as evidence that they are somehow 'above' the working classes, who many of the middle classes seem to think are represented by the cast of programmes like Shameless and the Jeremy Kyle show.

The only people I've met in real life who carr about class think they are more important/special than they are and use their perceived middleclass-ness as a reason to look down on others

Agree with this statement, which makes the same point as what I said above.

I think a lot of the time it boils down to your accent tbh

I'd agree with this in that perception of class is strongly linked to accent, whether it is or isn't actually the case.

I work in quite an unusual office, where there are many educated, multiply qualified professionals who are well paid, some in senior management positions and have attained worldwide expert status in a very niche field.

Most of us, myself included, are very much from a working class background, grew up on council estates, parents/grandparents factory workers, miners, barmaids, shop assistants, SAHPs etc. Most of us retain our regional accents that strangers would take as a marker of our working class background. But one colleague has a RP accent, so she seems 'posh' even though her values, behaviors, sort of house/area she lives in etc are very similar to everyone elses. I do know she grew up abroad and has lived in several different countries and regions of the UK, but nothing about what her parents did, but realise that she just seems more 'middle class' than everyone else and this judgement stems almost entirely from her accent.

Interestingly, many of the colleagues have young adult DC and their accent is far more towards RP than our regional accent than their parents. The DC of course having had the traditional MC upbringing, right schools, bigger house in desirable area, university at 18, while their parents mostly went to university as mature students after starting work at 16/18.

Oh yes. Accent certainly seems to play a part. I'm in a hobby chat group. Only 2 of us are English, everyone else is American. Every single one of them assumes I am posher than the other Brit. I am from the home counties. He is from Newcastle.
In reality we had very similar upbringings and education (raised by single parents, left school at 16 although I have been to college since) and both have low paid jobs.

The number of southerners who think they sound posh 😳

But yes, Americans mightn't hear the same things. I hear all these unnecessarily elongated vowels. I am not English, but I don't always think that any northerner is "less posh" !