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Dementors can dement but we'll keep it positive here

999 replies

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 02/05/2020 10:59

New thread
Dementor free zone

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7
Orangeblossom78 · 03/05/2020 10:38

Well, the Times today is calling for us going to a Sweden type approach-
on the lockdown...

"We must get on with it. As Professor John Ioannidis and Rohan Silva write for us today, draconian measures were justified when information on the spread of the virus was sparse and the NHS risked being overwhelmed, but a lockdown “is no longer a proportionate response, particularly given its profound negative impact: massive unemployment and increases in domestic violence, mental health problems and child abuse, as well as deaths caused by delayed or cancelled medical treatment.” The greatest constraints on personal and economic freedom in most people’s lifetime are taking their toll, and it is a considerable one.

This is what should happen. Rail operators have been asked to return to 80% of normal service by May 18, and that should be the date when the government sets a target for more than half of the labour force to be working as normal. It should not be difficult or risky.

One of the reasons the lockdown has had such a devastating impact on the economy is that more businesses than were required to do so closed their operations. Some, having revised their working practices to observe safe social distancing, have begun to return. More should be encouraged by the government to do so. Dates should be set for getting progressively higher proportions of employees back to work.

Schools should return after the spring half-term holiday, on June 1, and be put on notice to do so this week. That return can be phased, with different year groups going back first and with pupils returning for part of the week to allow smaller class sizes. But it should not be delayed. It is a long time until September, and if pupils do not go back to school soon, they are unlikely to return until that later date.

The government should also plan for a much wider opening-up of the country, by or before the time the schools are on holiday in the second half of July. Under Ireland’s exit plan, announced on Friday, people will be allowed to travel outside their region from July 20. The people of Britain recognise they will probably not be jetting off to Spain, Turkey or Greece this summer, but they, and the many businesses that depend on domestic tourism, should be allowed a staycation.

Pubs and restaurants should also be allowed a holiday season, or many will not emerge on the other side. Sweden, by relying on people to behave responsibly, has made this work. So can we, not least because the elderly and the vulnerable — those most at risk if they contract the virus — can avoid putting themselves in danger in bars and eateries. They can choose, voluntarily, to stay at home.

For everybody else, the government’s task is to encourage safe behaviour and an intelligent, risk-based approach. We know that despite the best efforts of scientists here and in other nations, a Covid-19 vaccine is some way off. Thus, as everyone understands, we will have to live with the virus for the foreseeable future.

When even scientists cannot agree whether we must stay two metres apart — the World Health Organisation and the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control say one metre — there is a danger that people have absorbed too hardline a safety message. They now need to be carefully weaned off it.

That makes it even more important that the task now begins of preparing everyone for the phased removal of lockdown restrictions.

The great opening-up requires the comprehensive plan that the prime minister promised a few days ago, not a set of broad parameters. He must provide that plan this week."

AnxiousElephant77 · 03/05/2020 10:41

Couldn't agree with all that more.

ThatLibraryMiss · 03/05/2020 10:42

Just watching Andrew Marr and the top scientific analysts has said we are past the peak then later on in the show they are talking about the app they are bringing out which will help track it - but why if we are past the peak?

Summersunandoranges, it's because they need to keep the trend downwards whilst re-starting the economy. Once the virus is more isolated in the community it'll be easier to identify the individuals who have it, and to shut down any potential for them to become the epicentre of a new outbreak.

I won’t be downloading it!

I will, especially if it means we get back to our old levels of freedom.

Orangeblossom78 · 03/05/2020 10:42

Lisa the Times was also reporting that too, saying how fearful we have all become...

Summersunandoranges · 03/05/2020 10:43

Anxious I don’t think they care. Well I know certain people that don’t. My friend has two bars and she is fucked! Yet I have people on facebook who have been furloughed who are screaming for lock down to last the year! And will readily say they ‘don’t care’ - lives come first Hmm completely kidding the point lives are being ruined

Also if they open the pubs and introduce a social distancing measure with in them and a limited time they are allowed to stay - that will also screw them up as they just wouldn’t be enough revenue coming in and they business don’t be supported by the government.

I wonder if we are allowed to move to Sweden!

Also why are we not hearing on the news about swathes of homeless people dying?

Orangeblossom78 · 03/05/2020 10:44

The bit I liked best was

Under Ireland’s exit plan, announced on Friday, people will be allowed to travel outside their region from July 20. The people of Britain recognise they will probably not be jetting off to Spain, Turkey or Greece this summer, but they, and the many businesses that depend on domestic tourism, should be allowed a staycation.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 03/05/2020 10:45

I might download it but it'll be next to useless as I don't always take my phone with me. It's too big for my pocket and I don't want to carry it so I don't bother.

AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter · 03/05/2020 10:45

but a lockdown “is no longer a proportionate response, particularly given its profound negative impact: massive unemployment and increases in domestic violence, mental health problems and child abuse, as well as deaths caused by delayed or cancelled medical treatment

I couldn't agree more with this statement. Lockdown has to be a proportionate response and it was in April. Not so much now.

AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter · 03/05/2020 10:46

Yet I have people on facebook who have been furloughed who are screaming for lock down to last the year

I wonder what these people would say if their work told them no more furlough pay after June. Would they still be screaming for lockdown until end of year on no pay? my guess is......no. lol

Orangeblossom78 · 03/05/2020 10:47

WHO has been recommending Sweden's approach as one to move towards for a 'new normal'

Sweden is a model for the new coronavirus normal, says WHO
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sweden-is-a-model-for-the-new-coronavirus-normal-says-who-dd8fgw7d0

The World Health Organisation lavished praise on Sweden as “a future model” in the next phase of fighting the outbreak because it has trusted people to observe social distancing rules.

Uniquely in Europe, Sweden chose not to tackle the pandemic with an enforced lockdown even though the policy has led to a higher death toll than in Denmark and Norway.

Dr Mike Ryan, of the WHO emergencies team, said it was wrong to believe that Sweden had “just let the infection spread”, adding: “Nothing can be further from the truth. Sweden has set a very strong policy on public health, it is about physical distancing and how to protect the elderly in various nursing homes and much more.”

Instead of schools, bars, restaurants and shops being closed, Swedes have been advised rather than compelled by the police or fines to adopt social-distancing measures.

“I feel confident in the overall strategy,” the prime minister, Stefan Lofven, said last week. “One reason that we have chosen this strategy, and where we have supported the agencies, is that all measures have to be sustainable over time.”

Sweden’s approach, Dr Ryan said, was a good example of how western societies could reach a “new normal”.

“What it has done differently is it has very much relied on its relationship with its citizenry and the ability and willingness of its citizens to implement self-distancing and self-regulate,” he said. “They have implemented public policy through that partnership . . . Sweden represents a future model if we want to return to a society that we do not have to close.”

Alsohuman · 03/05/2020 10:48

I suspect a lot of dementors who say they’re going to lockdown for months will change their tunes when furlough stops and parents start being fined for non attendance at school again. Something tells me the government will be quite draconian if there’s mass reluctance to get the economy moving again.

DianneWhatcock · 03/05/2020 10:49

@Orangeblossom78

Thanks for posting that article very interesting and positive and I can't agree more

Summersunandoranges · 03/05/2020 10:50

I won’t be downloading it!

I will, especially if it means we get back to our old levels of freedom

They talked about that you would be automatically alerted by Bluetooth from the person who was carrying Covid if you came with in two meters of them. I just think that’s awful. Imagine being in Tesco and people’s phones start pinging alerting them someone was there with Covid - people will be moving fast and trying to get out of the way. You might as well ring a bell and have ‘I have the plague’ written on your head.

BarkandCheese · 03/05/2020 10:51

I’d paint myself green and run naked (at a social distance of course) through the park at midday if it helped get us back to some semblance of normal. I’ll definitely be downloading the app.

I really hope there’s no kind of age limit on those allowed out. My mum is an extremely fit 65 year old widow whose life revolves around her friends, exercise classes, volunteering and walks with the ramblers. There must be thousands of fit, normally busy older people who live alone. Keeping them isolated is going to have an awful effect on their mental health, plus they’re very much the backbone of many charities with their volunteer work.

AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter · 03/05/2020 10:51

I suspect a lot of dementors who say they’re going to lockdown for months will change their tunes when furlough stops

Human beings have only two primal, genetic motivations:

  • the avoidance of pain *the pursuit of pleasure

The first one is a stronger impulse than the second one so I suspect that the people screaming for lockdown arent suffering too much. I guarantee as soon as it starts hurting their pocket, their philosophy will change quicker than you can say curly wurly

Orangeblossom78 · 03/05/2020 10:52

Alsohuman I agree. It also says in the Times today in a different article on the work situation /new 'message'

"The immediate goal, which one source called “back to the future”, will feature a PR push to get people to adhere to the letter of the existing rules, which allow anyone who can’t work from home to go in, and key workers to send their children to school.

In the cabinet video conference, Johnson made clear that the number of people not going to work had surprised his team. “Boris said something like: ‘The opportunity not to work was well and truly taken,’” a source present said.

Teateaandmoretea · 03/05/2020 10:54

I won’t be downloading it!

I will if it means we can get some semblance of normality back. Slagging off the ways out of lockdown based on stuff in newspapers is dementing imo.

ChilliCheese123 · 03/05/2020 10:56

You know what’s getting on my wick today ?
When someone says that a certain amount of people need to get covid, herd immunity etc and then the dementors who jump on saying ‘You DON’T want it, I was literally almost dead in my bed’ etc etc

Thiss convinced my partner who had symptoms for about 12 days, that he has literally had a brush with death, I say to him you didn’t have a severe case you didn’t ever have breathing difficulties. But he’s like reading this stuff on Twitter and seeing it on tv and convinced he was near death! I had a worse cough over Christmas than he had! and
He had what I’d consider a medium flu and I was all sympathetic etc but he got over it and is now fine. I had not one symptom so I’m not sure if it was corona how I escaped it. But the media and people on socials are like ‘after my bout of corona virus I’m not sure my health will ever be the same’ - people who didn’t even go to hospital or need oxygen or anything ?
My cousins been ventilated with pneumonia twice and yes she has a bit of a weird cough and she doesn’t love getting a cold/flu now but her life hasn’t been ruined by it. She runs, skis, gyms etc.
Yes there may be people who are in hospital ventilated for a long time with CV who have kidney/liver damage etc or are older and who’s illnesses will now be exacerbated by it but ffs people are making it sound like you get it and it’s 50/50 if you snuff it in bed even if you’re fit and healthy and youngish despite the statistical evidence to the contrary. And I know that someone will say ‘it has killed healthy young people!’ And I know it has but if you look at actual stats, it’s a small minority isn’t it. That’s like saying lung cancer kills healthy young non smokers. It does - I know someone who’s had it - but it shouldn’t be something healthy non smokers stress about too much because stats show they’re not the majority.

It’s working to make people accept the lockdown indefinitely though because people from what I’ve seen are too scared to go out even when it’s lifted.

I suspect these are the same people though who would be mega negative about any sort of illness.

Rant over good morning.

Drivingdownthe101 · 03/05/2020 10:56

In the cabinet video conference, Johnson made clear that the number of people not going to work had surprised his team. “Boris said something like: ‘The opportunity not to work was well and truly taken,’” a source present said

Haha. Not a Boris fan at all but this made me laugh.

B1rdbra1n · 03/05/2020 10:56

Hello👀
Can I just rest here for a bit with you people please🛋️
Thanks🙋🏼‍♀️

Summersunandoranges · 03/05/2020 10:59

Driving Grin

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 03/05/2020 11:00

Have you seen the dementors paradise that is the VE Day thread? It's enough to make me want to deck the house out in union flag bunting and play Vera Lynne at full volume!

ChilliCheese123 · 03/05/2020 11:03

@pinksparkly I’m tempted to set up a bbq in the front garden on Friday. Can you imagine the uproar. There could be multiple threads. Might even drink beer from a CAN that hasn’t been bleached and left for 72 hours whilst I do it.

Teateaandmoretea · 03/05/2020 11:05

Chilli I agree with you. They jump on anyone who compares it to flu, then describe their symptoms and it sounds much the same as a nasty bout of flu. The bizarre thing being is according to mumsnet you haven’t had flu anyway unless you can’t get out of bed for 2 weeks. Severe covid omission obviously worse than flu but I probably had flu last year and it took me 6 weeks to properly recover to normal strength and fitness and I didn’t even have it badly.

No one fancies or wants a dose of Covid, it sounds really horrid but ultimately it is now an additional risk that we are going to have to learn to live with.

Ragnarsbeard · 03/05/2020 11:05

Chilli there may be lots of shrieking and doors slamming shut Grin