Which Real Life Mystery Do You Find Most Fascinating?

[LifeIsBrutal]

Mine is D. B. Cooper. He hijacked a beong 727, stole $1.25 million in today's money, and parachuted down to earth with it. His identity is unknown and it's unknown if he survived the plunge to earth.

I've just spent a good hour reading a very detailed blog post about the missing Dutch girls in Panama.

It seems to me that it is being massively over complicated.

The phone calls:

The phones were both used numerous times to call for help, until one day the IPhone stopped being used. Then the battery on the Samsung gave up and there followed many unsuccessful attempts to get access to the iPhone.

It seems likely to me that the iPhone owner had already died, or was incapacitated to a point of unconscious-ness at that point and the Samsung owner was just trying to use their phone.

Much was made that the first phone call was made whilst it was still light when they were probably still on or in sight of the main path. One of the girls may have slipped, fallen or otherwise hurt herself too badly to attempt walking out.

The nighttime photos:

The camera was probably being used in an attempt to signal for help with the flash. The photos of many random things are probably just that. Random things that got in the way of the flash.

The locations of the rucksack and bones:

See attached image taken from the blog. It seems most likely to me that the girls attempted to cross the river on the monkey bridge, got into trouble and fell in the river. The various bones and clothing/accessories washed downstream from there.

Yes, many holes in my theory... most telling being the fact that the rucksack was dry whilst not being a waterproof one and the randomness of the bras having been taken off and out in them.

One of the girls may have slipped, fallen or otherwise hurt herself too badly to attempt walking out

If one of the girls had hurt herself on the first day while still on the path and the attempt to call 911 failed because there was no signal? Why didn't the other girl go for help? There were repeated attempts to access the phones using the wrong passcode in the days that followed. Why? If they were alone and injured, why didn't they record a message using the video function on their camera? Or take pictures to document what was happening? As for the night photos, there were no searches at night. Why would they be signalling for help? Who would try to navigate a dangerous bridge in the dark? After eight days doing what?

There are far too many weird things about the Panama case. By all accounts the path they were on was very safe and well-travelled and impossible to get lost on. If one of them had been injured, all they needed to do was sit and wait and someone would have soon found them. Or the other girl could have walked either back, or to the houses in the meadow.

Stuff like the deleted photo, photos of one of the girls taken 8 days after the first distress call, uneaten food in their backpacks, backpack being found many miles away, the piece of skin not being decomposed while the bone was bleached (and the bone reportedly had been bleached with a chemical not found naturally), the fact one girl’s pelvis was broken in half when the river was in drought and not flowing fast enough to damage a body. None of it adds up.

I had never even heard of this case until I read this thread! The linked blog is a rabbit hole....

That’s assuming the info in the blog is accurate! If it is, it casts doubt on the accident theory.

Sorry that was a PS to my last post, not a response to yours BovaryX.

the fact one girl’s pelvis was broken in half when the river was in drought and not flowing fast enough to damage a body. None of it adds up

Agree. There are too many inconsistencies with the accident narrative. It is an awful case and must have been so distressing for their families.

The Stephen Clark story is baffling, could he have fallen into the sea? Similar is Russell Bohling and the other case that bothers me is Mary Ferns in Edinburgh, disappeared from CCTV and literally into thin air. How does that happen?

The deleted photo is very odd.

What they are suggesting is that the camera had to have been hooked up to a computer and the photo completely deleted. Why not just destroy the camera. It's a LOT of effort to go to that just seems to have the opposite effect to what was desired as it has just highlighted that something odd happened. I was wondering if it was a fault with the card? I have had it on an old well used card where one file simply will not register and I get a missing photo whenever I used that card. Eventually the whole card corrupted. Although, saying that, I get a message saying "file corrupted" not just nothing.

If a third party had a hand in it and access to enough bleach to try and destroy a body, and motive to destroy a body, why on earth would they neatly pack the girls underwear, litter, phones, camera and memory cards into their rucksack and leave it in a field to be found. Surely if a person was attempting to get rid of evidence they'd just... get rid of it.

I was thinking the camera might have been used to try and signal to help because it occurred to me that it might have been a last desperate attempt. Like they might have thought they wouldn't bother previously because none was searching at night, but finally decided they might as well...

If a third party was involved it seems to be connected to the tour guide maybe? They seemed to be on the path to his house, yet he noticed nothing strange when he set out to meet them the next day.

All very odd, not least the changing stories from everyone involved. The taxi driver saying he dropped them off at 2pm, but the time stamps showing as 11am... the family insisting there are only three photos that show anything but later a whole wodge of photos leaked from... somewhere.

it might have been a last desperate attempt

That makes no sense. The first emergency call was at 4.30 I think on the day of the walk. It briefly connects then it was cancelled. It was still light, they were on the path. If one had had an accident, why didn't the other go for help? Why were there repeated attempts to access the phone using the wrong passcode during the following days? I think someone either knew they were going on that walk and followed them or saw them and followed them.

But why would someone who had done them harm want to get into an iPhone? By making repeated attempts to gain access they just draw more attention to it. They are in a jungle, just throw it in a ravine or smash it and scatter the pieces.

I stand by my theory that the attempts were made by the Samsung user after her phone died on that one. I read the timeline as both phones were used to try and dial out, then the iPhone stopped being used whilst the Samsung continued to be used. When the battery drained on that the iPhone began to be picked up again. If the Samsung user was alone at that point or the lass whose iPhone it was was unable to tell her the passcode that would explain the repeated wrong attempts.

When people are scared they panic. When people panic they do weird things or don't do things that seem obvious. When my daughter needed an ambulance last year after a nasty fall I was in such a flap I couldn't remember how to use my phone properly for a moment.

I don't know what I think really. I think it has been massively over complicated in places (people placing importance in details like the arrangement of what looks like toilet paper when it's probably just litter)

But you are ignoring the most important point. When the first call to emergency was made on day one, they were on the path. They then went further away from the town and the path. How if one was injured? The night time pictures are eight days later. What were they doing in the interim? Why didn't they use either their phones or their camera video to record what was happening? To take a picture when they had been taking multiple pictures every day? The night time pictures are static they are of the same location, not of an attempt to move. There are no pictures of either girl after the emergency call on day one. Except the back of the head photo, one of the last. That picture is very disturbing. It doesn't record what was happening to them. It obfuscates it. It looks like an attempt to stage 'we are lost' pictures. Panic doesn't last eight days.

You make good points, the only thing I can think of is that they weren't on the path at 16:39 when the first call was made. There is one idea I had which is that when the first call only connected briefly they may have attempted to move to higher ground for a better signal.

There is a case in America on the Appalachian trail where a woman went missing, she was not found for a very long time and when she was found she was only 60 or 70 yards away from a clear trail back to the roads, but, the area she was found in was densely packed with undergrowth and was tricky to see into or out of. She did write text messages which never sent which suggest she did the same, moved around to find signal and in the process got herself more lost.

However, the more I read, the more I think you are right and there was more than likely foul play. It just baffles me why someone would go to such lengths to create a "we are lost" narrative which ultimately creates much more suspicion. Surely the easiest way is to just let the bodies be "lost". Leave them in the jungle and destroy the phones and camera. Not pack everything up neatly and place it safe and dry in a field.

However, the more I read, the more I think you are right and there was more than likely foul play

Sadly, I can't think of any 'accident' which explains the bizarre features of this case. I think if one or both had been injured and they were lost, they would have recorded pictorial evidence to explain what was happening. They would have used the camera video function. The back of the head picture is to me very disturbing. To be honest, I don't think it's strange that their families didn't want to release the night pictures. It's a really sad case and their families must have been through hell.

Yes, the back of head 8 days later photo is alarming, since it means that either a third party took it, or that both girls were alive and reasonably okay. If both girls were still alive, one or both of them had to have been fetching fresh water on a regular basis for days; there was fresh water available but that indicates a good level of awareness and competence. They were with it enough to get water, but not to make a phone call or go for help? And what were they eating? Why was their food uneaten? Was the backpack lost on the first day, and if so how did it survive in a rainforest perfectly dry and clean?

I used to do a lot of hiking. The thing about hiking is that terrain differs wildly. The Appalachian Trail is infamous for being confusing and easy to get lost in. It’s very common to get lost even just a few feet off the trail. I’ve never been to Panama but all the accounts from those familiar with the terrain say it’s not like the AT; it really is impossible to get lost or lose the path while on that side of the continental divide.

Not so much fascinating but so sad.. the Sharon Marshall case.
She was kidnapped as a child...raised by guy as his daughter then became his wife. Had a child. She was then killed in a hit and run most likely by him and he then went on to kidnapp the son 4 years later who also he most likely killed.
Only in 2014 they discovered her true identity.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Delano_Floyd

I think if one or both had been injured and they were lost, they would have recorded pictorial evidence to explain what was happening. They would have used the camera video function.

Why? Presumably they expected that they would be able to tell people what had happened once they were rescued and wouldn't need pictures and video footage to prove it.

Why?

Because they would not have called 911 on day one unless they were in trouble.

I know I keep harping on... but it just makes no sense at all for someone to have gone to such great lengths to create a false narrative so very badly.

It's like a guy walking in his front door and saying "Hello wife. I have been at work all day. Absolutely. Didn't leave work at all. Here. Look at my phone where you will see a set of random photos I took for no reason of my workplace to prove I was there all day". It absolutely screams that something more happened.

If someone genuinely wanted to make sure that the girls were considered to have just had an accident in the jungle then surely you'd just tumble them, phones, backpack and all into the river, and leave nature to take it's course. I know the river was in drought, but it had been raining heavily according to the reports. Why pack away their things neatly and leave it to be found complete with incriminating phone records and an obvious photo deletion?

Also for someone to have deleted the photo so thoroughly they must have had access to a computer, from what I understand and I may be wrong, happy to be corrected, the only buildings around were ramshackle huts... unlikely to have computers or electricity?

Unless, someone made a 3/4 hour trip back to the town and manipulated the camera, then took a 3/4 hour trip back to the jungle to take loads more photos in the dark then made a hike three hours upriver to dump it in the backpack.

It just doesn't add up and I can quite see why people get engrossed in the case. Their poor families and the poor girls.

They made multiple attempts from both Kris' phone and Lisanne's phone to call 911 on April 2and, the day after they disappeared. Foot bones and the broken pelvis were found fourteen hours walk from their last picture two hours before the first emergency call on April 1st. Most of their remains have never been found. If one of them was injured two hours after their last tourist picture on April 1st, how were they able to continue walking up into the jungle for fourteen hours? Why are there no pictures or videos on the camera to record what had triggered the multiple failed calls to 911?

If someone genuinely wanted to make sure that the girls were considered to have just had an accident

They vanished on April 1st. By April 3rd, the trail was being searched. By April 6th, Kris' parents had arrived. Can you imagine that someone might want to deflect heat from what had become an international incident?

Heard a podcast on the Panama Girls a while ago--Generation Why, I think. Their conclusion was that it was probably an accident, but unfortunately, I don't remember their reasoning on that.

West Mesa body pit. They couldn't identify all the women found and there really are no clues as to who killed them.

They actually have a pretty good idea of who killed them. A prostitute went to meet a client at his house, while her pimp/boyfriend waited a few blocks away. When she didn't call for a pickup, he went to investigate and discovered the client carrying her nude body to his car. Pimp/boyfriend then got his own gun out of the glove box and shot the client dead. None of the skeletons were newer than the date that it happened. P.S. Pimp/boyfriend wasn't charged.

Delphi Murders--general consensus among law enforcement is that their killer was out "hunting" that day and that they were wrong place/wrong time.
Andrew Godsen
And a case that probably hasn't been mentioned in the UK--Tyler Davis, who disappeared outside his hotel in Columbus Ohio. He was on the cell phone to his wife and told her he could see the lights of the hotel but never made it back from his walk. Extensive searches done in the area, to no avail.

When you go off a trail in wilderness it can be incredibly disorientating and hard to find where you are. I wouldn't be surprised if they just went slightly off the trail and then never found their way back again. The phones turned off to conserve battery when they realised they really weren't getting a signal and then turned back on again later as a last ditch attempt or because they realised they were somewhere else and might be able to get a signal there.

I don't know, I just think accident is more likely than conspiracy.

Although actually, I suppose in areas where gangs are active and violent it is slightly different and there could be more likelihood of conspiracy.