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Original poster

Council want to prosecute over rubbish

99 replies

Annieberrie · 06/03/2020 17:11

Hi

I hope someone can help.

I recently moved house and had a lot of things I didnt want to take so used a removal service to take rubbish away. I found the service advertised on facebook marketplace and booked, after agreeing cost which was £150.

The rubbish was removed, and I was so pleased I gave a further £20 tip.

Last weekend received a letter from the council, stating I illegally dumped this and to send proof.

I sent the council an email, with conversation and pictures of the conversation, including agreeing cost and also a picture of the advertisement with contact details.

I have come home to find a letter asking me to pay £250 or the council will proceed with a prosecution. I called the officer who sent letter which went to answerphone. I received an email an hour ago from the officer stating as I could not provide evidence I failed in my duty of care. I replied with please check email that I sent to you (with date and time) with pictures attached of advertisement, and the business that took the rubbish and payment is actively advertising.

I do not know what to do, I cant afford fine, so will end up being prosecuted as the officer says I did not ask to see the business licence. I am terrified.

Does anyone have advice?

OP posts:
slipperywhensparticus · 06/03/2020 17:12

Check the company had buisness licence?

SharpieInThe · 06/03/2020 17:14

Did they have a licence to dispose of rubbish? Our local guy has a SEPA licence and advertises that.

Apparently if the company punts it over a hedge it's still your problem.

lanbro · 06/03/2020 17:16

Seems an excessive fine, it's £80 where I am, but unfortunately yes, you are at fault for not checking they are a licenced waste removal business. There is a tin of this happening at the moment, always best to ask for recommendations.

All you can do is try and argue your case but certainly around here the enforcement officers are pretty shit hot for fiming/prosecuting for fly tipping

mummabubs · 06/03/2020 17:17

I do feel for you as you've learnt this the hard way- always, always ask to see someone's waste carrier disposal licence/number so you can check. A reputable disposer will have no issue in showing you this. Unfortunately the council are correct in that under current legislation you can be prosecuted/fined for them not disposing of it legally (I'm guessing it's been fly tipped and something had your name or address on it?) I'd maybe hold off paying it until you get a reply from them about your email and just see if they'll accept it as evidence that you paid for someone else to do it? (although I still think you may be liable for it). 😔

user1497207191 · 06/03/2020 17:18

Just pay the fine and claim it back from the rogue removal firm you used - take them to small claims court if necessary. You've all the evidence that you paid them to perform a service and they havn't.

MediocreOmens · 06/03/2020 17:19

Honestly I am not sure what advice people can give. It is free and easy to search for whether a company has a business licence. You don’t really have a leg to stand on here. Fly tipping is a nuisance and I am pleased the council are following it up frankly. £150 is very cheap to remove a large amount of rubbish and should have rung alarm bells. This is the consequence of hiring a cheap company off Facebook marketplace and not doing proper research.

Jessie9323 · 06/03/2020 17:20

Unfortunately you have been duped by the waste collector. It's constantly on tv in the mornings (shift worker who watches rubbish) people are being tricked by adds that look good but the person has no waste license so they go and fly tip it somewhere. It is still therefore classed as your responsibility. If the person had sent you a copy of a fake license you would have a leg to stand on.

BobbyBlueCat · 06/03/2020 17:23

You haven't gotten a leg to stand on.

You should have requested to see his waste carriers AND waste disposal licences when booking him and when he turned up on the day.
He should have photographed / screenshotted your ID.

All this information is very easy to find online.

It's a harsh lesson, but you are to blame and the fine is deserved.
People are more concerned about getting rid of their rubbish cheaply than using a licenced service.

ChainsawBear · 06/03/2020 17:26

It's on you to check that a waste disposal firm has a licence. You're liable I'm afraid. Finding a waste disposal firm on Facebook Marketplace was always going to turn up shysters.

Weregoingonanadventure · 06/03/2020 17:28

It was your responsibility to check that the people you hired were licensed to dispose of rubbish had a contract with a dump site etc. If you didnt do that then you failed in your duty of care. Your rub ish was illegally dumped and you need to either pay the fine or face prosecution.
Its quite well known that it is your job to make sure your rubbish is disposed of correctly by anyone you hire. The email you sent him isn't proof of anything unless the man you hired sent you a fake license?

fluffiphlox · 06/03/2020 17:28

I think it’s just tough luck. Chalk it up to experience.

Wolfiefan · 06/03/2020 17:29

You need to pay up. You should have checked their licence. You didn’t so you’re liable.

Fannia · 06/03/2020 17:30

Wow I wouldn't have known to check for a licence either. Some people know everything, don't they? I would go to CAB and see if they can help you arrange some kind of payment plan.

Fannia · 06/03/2020 17:34

Also if the council can track you down as the original owner of the rubbish surely they can track down the rogue trader who illegally disposed of it.

hidinginthenightgarden · 06/03/2020 17:35

I wouldn't have known to check for a license either OP.
Id pay the fine and take the company to small claims for their fee plus the fine.

iMatter · 06/03/2020 17:36

Always check

I live in a national park and there has been some really bad fly tipping recently

It's your responsibility to check licenses etc I'm afraid

Councils realised long ago that the only way to have a hope of cracking down on fly tipping was to prosecute the person who owned the rubbish

ProfessorSlocombe · 06/03/2020 17:37

Also if the council can track you down as the original owner of the rubbish surely they can track down the rogue trader who illegally disposed of it.

Why ? They've solved the case. To spend any more would be good after bad, and then ...

take the company to small claims for their fee plus the fine.

I am going to take a punt that the company has disappeared into thin air.

Floralnomad · 06/03/2020 17:39

If I were you I would just find the money somehow or even ask if they will take it in instalments as if it goes to court you could end up with a huge fine .

Weregoingonanadventure · 06/03/2020 17:40

@Fannia
That's just not helpful. They might prosecute the flytipper separately but it wont help OP. The law is really very clear; you are responsible for ensuring the proper disposal of your rubbish. If you hire someone and dont check, then you are liable. Tell the OP that the council should track down the tipper isnt going to help her.

Fannia · 06/03/2020 17:44

professorSlocombe it's very unfair like prosecuting someone for buying stolen goods but not trying to catch the actual thief.

WarmSausageTea · 06/03/2020 17:45

If I were you I would just find the money somehow or even ask if they will take it in instalments as if it goes to court you could end up with a huge fine.

I think this is good advice; I would expect the council to accept part-payments. It might even be possible to add it to your council tax payments, which would split it over 10 payments.

Original poster
Annieberrie · 06/03/2020 17:48

I had no idea, I had to check for a licence, the business is still advertising. Anyway I will try cab, as I dont have the fees, the £150 was a lot of money to me

OP posts:
ProfessorSlocombe · 06/03/2020 17:49

professorSlocombe it's very unfair like prosecuting someone for buying stolen goods but not trying to catch the actual thief.

The law isn't concerned with fairness, sadly. And famously ignorance of the law is no defence, and the law places an obligation on someone disposing of waste to do it in a lawful manner. If you do hire someone to do it for you, then you can't offload that obligation. Hence the entire existence of the waste carrier bureaucracy. Very sorry the OP has been caught out like this, but as my old Mum used to say "being sorry butters no parsnips".

Fannia · 06/03/2020 17:53

@Weregoingonanadventure more helpful than all the posters who just said she was in the wrong for not knowing about the licence. I also advised her to contact the CAB in my other post. I do think it's wrong of the council to do it this way. If they can track down the owner of the random flytipped rubbish then they could also.catch the flytipper.

Floralnomad · 06/03/2020 17:54

Fly-tipping is a criminal offence punishable by a fine of up to £50,000 or 12 months imprisonment if convicted in a Magistrates' Court. The offence can attract an unlimited fine and up to 5 years imprisonment if convicted in a Crown Court.19 Jun 2019
Seriously OP do not under any circumstances let this get as far as court . The above is from parliamentary briefing notes .

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