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Original poster

Council want to prosecute over rubbish

99 replies

Annieberrie · 06/03/2020 17:11

Hi

I hope someone can help.

I recently moved house and had a lot of things I didnt want to take so used a removal service to take rubbish away. I found the service advertised on facebook marketplace and booked, after agreeing cost which was £150.

The rubbish was removed, and I was so pleased I gave a further £20 tip.

Last weekend received a letter from the council, stating I illegally dumped this and to send proof.

I sent the council an email, with conversation and pictures of the conversation, including agreeing cost and also a picture of the advertisement with contact details.

I have come home to find a letter asking me to pay £250 or the council will proceed with a prosecution. I called the officer who sent letter which went to answerphone. I received an email an hour ago from the officer stating as I could not provide evidence I failed in my duty of care. I replied with please check email that I sent to you (with date and time) with pictures attached of advertisement, and the business that took the rubbish and payment is actively advertising.

I do not know what to do, I cant afford fine, so will end up being prosecuted as the officer says I did not ask to see the business licence. I am terrified.

Does anyone have advice?

OP posts:
PlugholePencil · 06/03/2020 17:54

I didn’t know you were supposed to check this yourself either.
Sorry OP, I feel for you.
Still try and give the person a call. I know someone who was sent a letter about fly tipping. Despite being guilty she managed to talk to the person and they had discretion to let her off with a warning, which they did.

IloveJudgeJudy · 06/03/2020 17:55

Omg. I really feel for you. I, too, would have no idea that you have to check the licence of a waste disposal company, none at all. I know ignorance...

ProfessorSlocombe · 06/03/2020 17:56

If I was being bloody minded, I'd blame Facebook to a certain degree. They've trousered the money from the advertisement ...

Weregoingonanadventure · 06/03/2020 17:59

@Fannia

OP wanted to know if there was a way out of this. There isnt. Thats what everyone has told her. Then you come along and say that they should go after the tipper, which can then lead to the OP sending off more emails telling them to do that. It wont help her.
She needs to pay the fine or be prosecuted. And she doesnt need CAB to negotiate for her; she should just call the contact she has on Monday and speak to them.

MilleniumHallsWalledGarden · 06/03/2020 18:02

it's very unfair like prosecuting someone for buying stolen goods but not trying to catch the actual thief.

The council have no business spending more tax-payer's money on this. As far as they're concerned the buck stops with OP. It's for her to chase fly-tippers for reimbursement.

ProfessorSlocombe · 06/03/2020 18:04

She needs to pay the fine or be prosecuted

and then they would have the option of trying to recover the fine from the company through a civil claim. However - despite what was said upthread - I can't see them being available for any action. This isn't a "mistake" or an "oversight". This is a crooked company that is making it's money by undercutting companies that do dispose of their waste lawfully through the simple expedient of getting all of us to pay for it.

Still, as long as no one has been upset by anything said on Twitter today, there's some peace in the world.

SoupDragon · 06/03/2020 18:06

if the council can track you down as the original owner of the rubbish surely they can track down the rogue trader who illegally disposed of it.

Well, no (other than the fact that the OP has sent them evidence) as the fly tippers didn't leave items with identifying, personal information on them in the rubbish that was dumped.

Oblomov20 · 06/03/2020 18:07

Seems a lot. This seems very unfair. I'd phone the council again. Sometimes you get a jobsworth. Sometimes you get someone really nice. You voujd plead? They might reduce it significantly.

madcatladyforever · 06/03/2020 18:08

Bollox thats me taking my own stuff downthe dump this weekend then from my house move :-(

virginpinkmartini · 06/03/2020 18:09

I feel for you OP, for what it's worth.

It's a harsh lesson to learn, for sure. It's the kind of thing you would only know to check if you had been told beforehand/ read it somewhere. I knew about checking credentials because of some 'gotcha' cowboy programme I watched a few years ago by chance. Wouldn't have known about the business licence thing otherwise, but probably would have done a bit of research online first about the company's reputation, like I would with any service provider.

I know ignorance doesn't absolve you from responsibility, but it does seem like the wrong person is being punished the most 💐

Fannia · 06/03/2020 18:09

So flytipping is considered bad enough to attract a £50,000 fine or 5 years in prison but it's not worth the council's while to catch the person who actually did it rather than the person who foolishly failed to check for a licence. Even though they must have some idea who it was since they managed to link the rubbish to the OP.

Original poster
Annieberrie · 06/03/2020 18:14

I will have to find the money, as the environmental health officer wont accept the evidence and contact details sent, I genuinely had no idea, nor did I think it was cheap

OP posts:
ProfessorSlocombe · 06/03/2020 18:14

Simplest (and cheapest) solution would be to get Facebook to stop cocking about with trying to track us all using their "AI" and instead use it to pop up a message on adverts like the one the OP clicked on warning people to ensure they've checked the traders bona fides before employing them.

I wonder if I could patent that and make a fortune.

I wonder what other trader services could be highlighted this way ?

OP is lucky there wasn't any restricted or prohibited waste in the mix (whether theirs or someone elses mixed in). Because that would have upped the fine considerably.

Still no buttered parsnips, sadly.

MooseBeTimeForSummer · 06/03/2020 18:15

It’s quite easy to link rubbish to the OP if there was something in there with her address on it.
It’s up to OP to pay the fine then try and take the business through the small claims court. She’ll need an address for service though. That might not be so easy to find.

Lifeisabeach09 · 06/03/2020 18:18

I agree with Fannia.
The council should be going after the removal service because you can bet they are disposing of other customers' waste in the same manner.

And I wouldn't have known to check for a license, either.

Nowisthemonthofmaying · 06/03/2020 18:19

Just email them back and ask if you can pay the fine in instalments - they will probably agree.

ProfessorSlocombe · 06/03/2020 18:20

The council should be going after the removal service because you can bet they are disposing of other customers' waste in the same manner.

Well, when we have a government that funds local services properly, you can certainly cast your vote for a local council that does that. Until then they have to take the easiest and cheapest option.

I'm not saying it's right. We already know it's not fair. But it's pretty much what we've all decided as a society.

flowerycurtain · 06/03/2020 18:25

Fly tipping is a huge issue in the countryside.

Some bloke off Facebook was never going to be a reputable waste disposal company.

As a farmer who has had 14 incidents of fly tipping on our land since Jan you should totally pay up.

I appreciate its a lot of money and might be difficult but this fly tipping has to stop.

feesh · 06/03/2020 18:27

The council don’t go after the service the OP used, because the law is VERY clear that it is the customer who is liable for checking that their service provider has the license. This law has been around for years. The Council are obliged by law to go after the person who “owned” the waste.

Lightsabre · 06/03/2020 18:31

I'd find the money to pay as, if it goes on, you'll be liable for court fees which will be a lot more.

YesThatsATurdOnTheRug · 06/03/2020 18:31

If it's the environment they care about they should absolutely pursue the tippers as well as the OP. Incredibly short sighted of them, unsurprising given it's local government!

VirtualHamster · 06/03/2020 18:33

The council will prosecute the fly tippers as well if they have evidence to do so, it's not an either or thing.

Oblomov20 · 06/03/2020 18:34

Will you also contact him? Ask for money back? Try and get it back from small claims. Is that even possible?

Weregoingonanadventure · 06/03/2020 18:36

@Fannia

Omg. They did prosecute flytippers but they need actual evidence, like CCTV. They can prove the rubbish belonged to the OP and she is responsible for it so they prosecute her.

They also prosecute flytippers, but the only way to really stop people from using flytippers is by prosecuting the people who do use them. Cut off the consumers of these scammers and the problem lessens.

OchAyeThaNoo · 06/03/2020 18:44

OP, you need to request to pay by instalments and don't let on to the flytipper company that you have been fined. Use your time to get the details of the dodgy company and take them to small claims court for the fee you paid to them for a job not done and the fine from the council. Filing a small claims case it's actually pretty cheap especially as you will be entitled to at the very least, the payment to them back. Did you pay cash though? Do you have any paperwork at all or confirmation of payment to them in messages or anything?