Do you think Britain has an anti children culture?

[karencantobe]

I see this said a lot on here. So wondering what others think? And if you think yes it does, what do you actually mean by anti children? What would be different?

To take it a bit broader, I think it has an almost anti-human culture in some ways.

There's still quite a lot of resistance to work flexibility, I find. The leisurely culture of the continent is seen as lazy, but it's more compatible with both adults AND children.

When working life is seen as a worthy grind that everyone ought to submit to, yes, I probably do feel more anti-children in leisure times, because my leisure times all the more precious as a result.

But these are just anecdotal ramblings, admittedly based on my experience of a lot of different countries.

God no the little fuckers are EVERYWHERE.

Yes, totally. I see the difference when I go back to the UK for vacation, people are less warm towards kids

Yes, totally. I see the difference when I go back to the UK for vacation, people are less warm towards kids

That's probably because (if you believe the threads on here) to so much as glance in the direction of a child renders you a paedo / pervert / weirdo. Gods help you if you smile, talk to or engage with a child. Touch one and you deserve locking up.

I think it works both ways. Some people seem to expect everyone, including complete strangers, to indulge their children's behaviour. When this doesn't happen it's blamed on the person, not the child.

You only have to read threads on here, it starts from birth, and then "But why can't I use the wheelchair space for my pushchair?" or "Why should my child sit on my knee when a pensioner wants to sit down?".

I don't think so but some kids behave very badly when out in places where they shouldn't be heard much inside (e.g. pubs) which irritates the hell out of other diners/drinkers. Some parents cannot/will not teach their kids manners or acceptable behaviour in adult type places which leads to a lack of warmth towards them..

Yes, definitely. We’ve just nipped into our local shop for stationary items, and the lady had a horrified edge to her voice when she asked if it was half term.

That's probably because (if you believe the threads on here) to so much as glance in the direction of a child renders you a paedo / pervert / weirdo. Gods help you if you smile, talk to or engage with a child. Touch one and you deserve locking up.

Yes, absolutely this!

You can't have it both ways. A lot of Mumsnetters post about the romanticised memories of foreign waiting staff, who make a fuss of the kids and and 'practically drag them away' so the parents can eat their meal etc.

Do that here and a lot of MNetters would be advising them to call 101 and log it.

I think the modern-day UK has an anti shit parent culture. I’ve been accused of not liking children (untrue, I love them, I’m a teacher) for the following reasons;

Not enjoying having a complete strangers child join me for coffee or a meal whilst out and their parents expecting me to entertain them whilst they eat in peace.

Preferring children don’t sit on my car. Or walk on my garden wall.

Preferring loud groups of children do not join me and proceed to splash me in the clearly marked ADULT ONLY hot tub at 11pm on holiday.

Thinking the mother who, in a completely empty cafe apart from me, thought it was a good idea to ask her 3 year old where they should sit. Obviously he chose in the same booth as the lady with the laptop and 40 exam papers to mark and then proceeded to look over my shoulder, comment on everything I was doing, shout, jump, around, try and mess up my papers etc whilst mum sat blissfully staring at her phone. I was flamed on here about that. Told I should have stayed at home (I didn’t have access to home or work that day) or moved (there was only one power socket) and the mother was perfectly entitled to sit there. There were 25 other tables. Yes, she was not barred from sitting next to me but she could have had some common sense and chose a different fucking booth or god forbid parented her child and told him not to behave so badly.

I’ve been told I was anti-child for preferring not to get kicked repeatedly in the back, having my hair pulled and my head bumped several times and being screamed at for not wanting to play in the middle of the night on a long haul flight whilst the child’s parents got pissed and watched films in another row.

I guarantee 9/10 the problem is not the child. It’s the fact that the parents are not being considerate of the rest of the world that does not revolve around their child.

Absolutely. We still have a culture of "Seen and not heard" I spend a lot of time in Spain , it's acceptable for kids to be playing while thier parents eat at a restaurant or in a bar. Even in the winter kids are seen everywhere in the evening. It makes for a completely different environment....not over run with lager louts shouting and fighting.

Completely agree with the 'anti shit parent culture' idea. I love kids. What I don't love is kids running around screaming at the top of their voices, throwing their food around the restaurant. Most people do like kids and if they don't then they'll at least tolerate them. What gets peoples backs up is when parents don't reach their little darlings how to act in public. Yes, kids are noisy, they cry etc. Not a problem. But there are limits.

I agree with the culture being against bad or lazy parenting, not children per se. The parents in question then suffer the most when the children are older.

@bert3400 In fairness if the bars and restaurants you go to in Britain have lager louts shouting and fighting, then you are going to the wrong places.

Yawn yawn. We always have one, "Oh, the Europeans love children". Sure they do. Every single European loves children, especially British ones. Particularly restaurant owners who just adore having kids run around and can't wait to pinch their cheeks and coo, "Bello bambino"... I'm sure I don't know where this myth comes from.

No I don't think so at all. I've got 4 kids so plenty of experience. Generally when people are anti-kids it's because said kids are being a pita or because parents are acting as if not allowing children to do something is against their human rights.

And have to agree re the European myth. Travel to Europe frequently, never noticed kids being treated any differently at all.

USA where we also travel to visit family is very different, with life very family orientated.

It think there is an element of children shouldn’t be seen or heard but then again there are a lot of entitled parents out there letting their kids run amok

I dont think britain is anti children, as long as they are in their box. So as long as children are in child friendly restaurants, child friendly cinema screenings, child friendly hotels etc etc. Anywhere else and you dont want to hear them.thats the difference, in europe children are part of the community and everyday life, here they are allowed in their own enclosed area, tjey are a class of their own.

I think some cultures are warmer to kids, but they are also warmer to adults. So I have some Brazilian friends. They are so touchy and huggy. I think being more touchy and warm is not specificallt aimed at kids, but just everyone.

Im in Denmark. Its not exactly child centered but there is a general idea that everyone deserves to be included in society. So if your kid is kicking off no one bats an eye or tutts. There doesnt seem to be such a big gap between the generations. Also people are much better at handling conflict so will say stop kicking the back of my chair I wont have it, but in quite a neutral tone. It takes a whole village to raise a child and all that.

We were in a new italian restaurant the other night and the maitre d did say aiii bambiinooos!

I wouldn't say it's 'anti children' here at all!

But I would say that I do think that there is a separation between children and adults here that isn't as evident in Europe and other regions. I feel that in the UK, there are very much Things for Children and Things for Adults. Particularly with regards to being out in public, for example the cinema, restaurants...

I feel like we treat children as completely separate beings here, not just like little people who can join in with more than we give them credit for, even down to the food they eat.

bibidy the food thing drives me mad ! No need for children s menu and kids foods. They are perfectly capable to eat everything we do, just smaller and maybe less spicy options.

I think only on MN. I remember a thread a while back, OP asking if she could take her newborn out to eat. Was a mixture of horrified posters at the thought of a newborn in a family friendlyrestaurant at sunday lunch time and normal replies of "it's fine, if they kick off then leave and settle them" but there were posters who told the OP that she would ruin everyone's day, people go out to eat to get away from children etc. We were talking harvester/toby carvery type here, not fine dining and romantic music FFS.

That said, me and my toddler are welcomed most places tbh, you get the odd mardy arse who think 1/2 year olds are plenty old enough to remain silent but they get ignored. I remember being very anxious if DD kicked off on public transport, when it did happen I got a couple of sympathetic looks, a young kid commenting "ahhh the baby is sad" and help off the train with my pram. If you went by some threads i would have been confronted by work commuters and told not to take my baby out until it's under control.

Sorry that was long, but I suffered really bad when my DD was born with how the general public would treat us, worried I might an inconvenience etc. In reality no one really cares unless you let your child run riot.

Goodbye paragraphs

But there was also a thread the other day where the OP did want to take her newborn to a fine dining restaurant, on Valentine's Day no less, and got a bit arsey about being told that might not be the most appropriate moment to trial a dinner out.

I'm sure I don't mind children in restaurants - mine have always been! BUT I am less than thrilled when I see kids roaming around, messing about with food, or parents parading backwards and forwards with them.