Planning a half-term break at Center Parcs? Did you know their communal spa changing rooms are no longer single sex?

[Clymene]

You may have read a story in the papers in October last year where a transwoman called Vicky Hodges went to Center Parcs and wasn't allowed to use the communal women's changing rooms at the Aqua Sana spa but was directed to a private changing room instead. Vicky has not taken any hormones, does not have a GRC and is still a male-bodied person to all intents and purposes.

Article about Vicky and photo: www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/10/30/center-parcs-trans-woman-changing-rooms-equalities-act-victoria-hodges/

Vicky wasn't happy about this and on a thread in FWR confirmed this month that CP has said Vicky is absolutely welcome to walk through the women's communal changing areas and use one of the private changing cubicles (of which there are only 2 or 3).

This is Vicky's post:

"Just a quick update. I can confirm Vicky Hodges and Center Parcs had a very amicable conversation just before Christmas and the issue of changing room access for transgender customers was resolved. Center Parcs confirmed that they do have a private changing cubicle within the Aqua Sana, open plan, female changing room and that Vicky was more than welcome to use it and the changing room as she wishes to. Center Parcs also confirmed they are a fully inclusive organisation. I can also confirm that Vicky has now been to Center Parcs, used the changing room and she had a great weekend with her family.
How do I know all this? Well "GirlOnTheRoof" is Vicky Hodges... 💃🏻🙋🏻‍♀️"

and this is the thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3731052-Center-Parcs-upholding-single-sex-spaces?pg=3

so if you were planning to take your teenage daughter to the spa at half term, you might want to think again.

Sigh. All the ten pc are men though. That’s the whole point.

F.Sake
Another erosion of the rights of those who identify as women from birth.
Fucking men.

Only 10% are strangers. The percentage of these strangers being trans is minuscule.

Can you define 'trans' here please?

We are talking about allowing males into female spaces.

But probably 100% of women (or pretty close) have been groped, sexually harassed, intimidated, catcalled, frightened or similar by males (of all genders ).

Well, Center Parcs is a total rip off, and Vicky can fuck off!

If she doesn't understand why women and young girls don't want her in our dressing rooms, then she should at least realise that it's the same for us as her being made to go undress in the mens dressing room.

But it's not the same though.

It's worth reminding ourselves th
women can become impregnated as a result of rape by a man.

Go woke, go broke.

Bye Centerparcs!

My very close Muslim friend absolutely loved going to female only spas and now she refuses to go because of this issue. So sad.

I dislike all of the stats in the post ^^ but this one

The chances of
a) anybody being able to afford CP is small*

Is nonsensical, as 100 percent of the people in centerparcs can afford to be there - as they are there!

I would absolutely hate this. And it's not due to thinking I'd at risk of assault but I don't want to see men with their cocks out of have them see me naked. It also does open up the fitting rooms to men who would just get a kick out of it.

Vicky intentionally asked CP if Vicky could use the female communal space. Vicky was told CP's policy which included saying no, the female communal space was female only, but reassuring Vicky that an alternative space was available for their use.

Vicky went to CP and did Vicky's thing anyway: which Vicky had clearly been determined to do whatever CP's said and whatever impact it might have on female people. CP faced with this clearly struggled to keep a boundary. Not surprising really.

Vicky then came on MN and gloated at female people, bottom line of which 'I did what I wanted and you couldn't stop me'. The lovely power buzz it gave Vicky is hard to miss. And oh so bloody familiar.

@yehdivvy center parcs spas aren't female only though :)

Only 10% of rapists are strangers and only 3% of women were raped in the UK last year.

A woman is raped every 6 minutes so a woman is raped by a stranger every hour. Every year, 3% of all women in the UK are raped. That adds up to a hell of a lot of women over the years. It would be all of us in the space of just 33 years and 4 months except for the fact that some women have the shitty horrible luck to be raped year after year after year.

The word 'only' does not belong in the above quote but there it is, twice. Apparently some people think this is an acceptable number of raped women.

We have rights far beyond just not getting raped or beaten up.

We have the right to not have our dignity violated. We have the right to not be subjected to an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment, by a service provider, in relation to our protected characteristic of sex.

This is the definition of harassment in the equality act and it's prohibited conduct. It's unlawful.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/26

This is a large part of why we have single sex exceptions in the equality act - to prevent unlawful harassment.

There is no legal obligation on service providers to use a single sex exception. Nevertheless they are legally obliged to not harass us.

We have the right to not be subjected to an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment

And there doesn't need to be an actual instance of a male person entering female space for these conditions to be met. Just knowing that a male person could enter at any time is enough to create these conditions.

For me, it's not just about the risk of attack by a male bodied person.

It's about me not wanting to get undressed in the same room as a male bodied person.

Maybe that makes me a prude, it's hard to tell in this brave new world.

If all communal changing rooms gradually become unisex, then why not just do away with them altogether - everyone might just as well get changed by the side of the pool.

It wouldn't bother me BUT I can understand why it bothers others, and their rights should be upheld! Therefore I disagree massively with CPs decision.

We have the right to not have our dignity violated.

There are two ways a male person violates female people's dignity when entering a communal female changing room.

One is the obvious - women losing bodily privacy and/or being subjected to male nudity without our consent.

The other way our dignity is violated is that we are not given the basic respect due to all people simply for being human. Our feelings, opinions and boundaries don't matter. We are being used as mere tools for the validation of others' beliefs about themselves.

For those saying "doesn't bother me, its not like anyone is going to get raped in a changing room", rape isn't the issue. Making a females uncomfortable is just the start here.

Have you read the threads on here asking for the worst thing that's ever happened to you? The OP presumes people would reply with silly embarrassing stories and the like but the thread(s) are just filled with dark as fuck stories of women being assaulted, almost raped or attacked, or simply intimidated by men following them home. The men didn't actually do anything in most of these stories except do something like walk behind them on deserted street, crossing the road when the woman did. Or driving their car slowly by them and turning it round at the end of the street to come back. No attack, just absolutely terrifying an innocent woman. Those psychos will take full advantage of these ridiculous rules.
As a child aged about 10 I remember the man who followed my friend and I to the swimming pool and exposed himself at every opportunity. Taking the cubicle opposite ours in the communal changing rooms and standing with his door open and dick in hand for when we exited ours then again, having it out in the swimming pool when my friend and I were playing underwater knowing full well he was facing us. Being so young we just pretty much rushed off home thinking "Ew! Gross!".

REAL Transwomen aren't so much the issue here but the allowance of ANY man to suddenly claim "I'm a woman" to gain access to female only spaces with no proof of transition and still having male genitalia. Ergo, a man. Male.

I am shocked that anyone can use the stat of 3% of women being raped in the context of ‘ only 3%’. That is massive. I do worry for safeguarding in the future if anyone can say they self identify as a woman. This is not about trans rights as such, it is about loop holes that allow potentially dangerous men into areas that should be safe for women.

Sometimes people who support the right of males to use female facilities pretend it's perfectly normal and OK to strip off in front of male-bodied people and that those of us who don't want to are making a point or prudes.

What is actually normal is that we, and most other cultures and times and places, DO segregate on the grounds of biological sex. It's understood that taking one's clothes off, using the toilet etc are intimate things which people of both sexes prefer to do alongside those of their own sex.

Everyone knows this really.

I want a penis free zone. Whatever you identify as, fill yer boots. No penis and no balls though, thanks.

This is an example of the law allowed a man to expose himself in front of women. If this were the street, they’d be arrested.

I’ve emailed the ceo.

Only 3% of women got raped last year eh?
That's so offensive to think you can trot that out as somehow ok and minimise what's being discussed.
Those women might well feel that was 3% too many. As would most of the women who managed not to get raped.
You are missing the point being made by a mile and trivialising the effect of male violence as an inconsequence.

Centre parka are just another company to jump on the "look at us we are woke" bandwagon and it's ridiculous.
I challenged this at my work place and it was revoked but I know that's rare.