Planning a half-term break at Center Parcs? Did you know their communal spa changing rooms are no longer single sex?

[Clymene]

You may have read a story in the papers in October last year where a transwoman called Vicky Hodges went to Center Parcs and wasn't allowed to use the communal women's changing rooms at the Aqua Sana spa but was directed to a private changing room instead. Vicky has not taken any hormones, does not have a GRC and is still a male-bodied person to all intents and purposes.

Article about Vicky and photo: www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/10/30/center-parcs-trans-woman-changing-rooms-equalities-act-victoria-hodges/

Vicky wasn't happy about this and on a thread in FWR confirmed this month that CP has said Vicky is absolutely welcome to walk through the women's communal changing areas and use one of the private changing cubicles (of which there are only 2 or 3).

This is Vicky's post:

"Just a quick update. I can confirm Vicky Hodges and Center Parcs had a very amicable conversation just before Christmas and the issue of changing room access for transgender customers was resolved. Center Parcs confirmed that they do have a private changing cubicle within the Aqua Sana, open plan, female changing room and that Vicky was more than welcome to use it and the changing room as she wishes to. Center Parcs also confirmed they are a fully inclusive organisation. I can also confirm that Vicky has now been to Center Parcs, used the changing room and she had a great weekend with her family.
How do I know all this? Well "GirlOnTheRoof" is Vicky Hodges... 💃🏻🙋🏻‍♀️"

and this is the thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3731052-Center-Parcs-upholding-single-sex-spaces?pg=3

so if you were planning to take your teenage daughter to the spa at half term, you might want to think again.

Only 10% of rapists are strangers and only 3% of women were raped in the UK last year.

But how many off us have been made uncomfortable or scared by men's threatening or predatory behaviour?

A woman is raped every 6 minutes in England, just to add to the chilling stats.

@Sp11111ng why are you talking about 'trans' people here? This is allowing males (who say the magic words 'I identify as a woman) into female spaces.

Why can't transwomen just use the men's?

Rape is the worst case scenario. What best case scenario were CP hoping for? One trans woman appeased, tens of female customers made to feel awkward, embarrassed and gaslighted.

Where are the blogs from the women sharing the changing room with Vicky who didn’t feel comfortable or have such a lovely time? Shut down, that’s where.

1 in 5 women have been raped. I am astounded you think this is insignificant. The increase of sexual assaults between single sex changing and mixed is quite significant, off the top of my head I think it was 14 in single sex and 130 in mixed kn the period of a year. Why on earth would you want the risk increased.
I am of the belief that for the 1 in 5 women who have been raped they are entitled to get changed without a Male presence.

I don’t want to see male genitalia unless I specifically request and he and I both consent.

I don’t want any person with male genitalia to see me undressed. I barely can handle other people who share my anatomy seeing me undressed.

ONLY 3% of women?

WTF

More on the increased dangers to females in mixed sex changing areas

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

*“These figures show that women and girls are more vulnerable in mixed changing rooms and there is a danger these places are becoming a magnet for sexual offenders,”

Have been to the Aqua Sana at Longleat numerous times.
Everyone changes in individual cubicles and the showers were individual too.
There were no children or anyone under 18 there on any of my visits.
Not an issue for me, no different to getting changed in a unisex leisure centre changing room.

I was about to say... when I went to the spa there, everyone used the individual cubicles that are in there, rather than the open plan bit.

Not sure how I feel about this, except id assume CP have a certain level of ‘use your judgement’ about this, and would be unlikely to let any old bloke in.

I’d still go to CP (if I could afford it!) just use the cubicles and encourage my friends to do the same.

There are 2 FB pages where those going post questions etc. I think one is called Center Parcs supporters and the other Center Parcs tips and hints. If anyone if on FB (I’ve deleted mine) it may be an idea to post on those pages both for the benefit of members and those at CP who def monitor them.

I don't really think it matters if you undress in the cubicles or not. The fact is that women can undress in the communal areas. And they have the right not to expect to have a man walking through there.

Spas are supposed to be relaxing, pampering, indulgent experiences. I can't imagine anything less relaxing than encountering a man in the changing room and I'd be bloody pissed off if I'd spent £100+ on treatments if that happened.

But what if you'd turned up at the spa and it was a unisex changing room full stop?!
I actually prefer unisex changing at a swimming pool as the husband can come in with me and the kiddies and help me!

I would like to send an email but if anyone has written something more eloquent than I am able to cobble together it would be greatly appreciated if it was posted on this thread.

It's not just about cubicles though is it?
Also, the rise in men using spyware to capture footage of women and children is worrying.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/sexual-predator-stalked-trafford-centre-17587831

'Prosecutor Jon Close told Preston Crown Court that Smith's offending first came to light when he was caught filming a 15-year-old girl in the 'swimming village' at Darwen Leisure Centre in May 2019.

'She began to get changed and as she removed her shoes she noticed movement from underneath the door. She noticed that a mobile phone with a camera kept appearing and disappearing.'

Which CP was it?

A Google search gives pretty grim reading about cameras in changing rooms of all descriptions.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safari&hl=en-gb&sxsrf=ACYBGNS1HANoAOtajRpGOZHdnIFzAflKg%3A1580415591798&ei=ZzozXpKzMOXE8gLqtqrIDA&q=changing+rooms+camera+court+uk&oq=changing+rooms+camera+court+uk&gss_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.3...100949.102618..103204...0.1..0.90.470.6......0....1.........0i71j35i304i39j30i10.s0EE7QYSoI0#ip=1

Is there any link between transgender people and these accounts of men illegally filming women In changing rooms?

I don't know Stompy. Is there any link between men coming out as trans and a reduction in sexual offending?

Is there any link between transgender people and these accounts of men illegally filming women In changing rooms?

Men commit 98% of sexual crime. Males as a class are high risk. At what point does a transwoman come out of the high risk category of male and into the low risk category of female?

Full surgery? Top surgery? Hormones? Makeup? Long hair? Dresses? Simply being a man who says 'I identify as female'?

How are you defining 'transgender' for the purposes of this discussion?

Well in the sense that transition means nothing but self declaration and that in any case there is no evidence that transwomen give up male offending patterns and take on female offending patterns then yes, there is a direct link between allowing transwomen into women’s facilities and these kinds of crimes because a) there’s nothing to stop your common or garden male offender using this self ID route and b) the evidence is that transwomen have the same offending patterns as the male population from which they are drawn.

Only 10% are strangers. The percentage of these strangers being trans is minuscule.

Transphobic scaremongering.

Just to help me, how do I distinguish between a transgender person (born male) and a common-or-garden male? Unlike Layla Moran I can't see into their souls.

How do I determine who is allowed in and who isn't? Because as far as I can see there is no criteria except a wish to enter. And that means CP's policy opens the doors to its women's changing area to EVERYONE. There is no boundary.