Why did people prefer Boris?

[Meshy12]

I have been racking my brain on this and I can see that BOTH Corbyn and Boris have negative points of course. And I know that brexit played a key part in this election.

But I’ve heard that many in the ex Labour heartlands had Labour running through their blood but They didn’t want to vote for Corbyn and had to vote for someone.

What was it about Boris Johnson and his bandits that offered that alternative? It’s not as if Boris is exactly more trustworthy or moral than Corbyn is it?

Why didn’t they vote for LD for example? Or even Brexit party or Greens?

I don’t really understand it

@HenSolo, you need to unboggle your mind and clearly and unemotionally analyse why people "fell for" Boris - it is only way to save the Labour Party.

What do you mean by ‘unboggle’ my mind? You’ve lost me there I’m afraid

Do you really really need me to signpost the evidence that Johnson is a liar? I mean I can if you’d like, but the kids are getting up now so I won’t have time till later

@Singlenotsingle - parliament voted through Boris’ deal. He pulled it before second reading for an election. Boris himself voted against TM’s deal several times.

I think the personality of the country has changed, we're more self serving, we want an aggressive leader, it fits with how we want to see ourselves globally I think. A bit like America, independent, bit bullying, bit superior.. we want a 'strong' leader more than we want a good leader. Even when we know he's lying to us, and our lives are going to get much worse.

@HenSolo - Do you really really need me to signpost the evidence that Johnson is a liar?

I suspect Mominatrix means the Labour Party and their supporters need to stop worrying about why people voted for Boris and the Conservative Party and focus on why those same people voted against Jeremy and Labour.

Until you start doing that you're never going to win.

I keep thinking of similarities between him and Bliar Blair, for whom people voted in droves. Although Blair was less of a "clown", similarities between him and Boris were:
The Cheshire Cat grin.
The endeavour to be "popular", yet totally unphased about being controversial.
The blatant lying.
The lack of credible opposition (IDS, anyone?).
The blatant self-serving. Does anyone remember that when Blair was re-elected in 2001, the first thing he did was to award himself a 50% pay rise? It's the sort of thing Boris would do, although it will be harder for him while people remember austerity.

Precisely, Milk. If you think that people were ignorant to the fact that Boris is freehanded with the truth and morally amorphous, you are guilty of believing that those precise voters were stupid to fall for a con. This is precisely the line of thought which lost Labour the vote. You need to shift your analysis to what it was that Boris represented to these voters which made them vote for him to prevent quickly moving into political oblivion.

I think most people who voted ‘for Boris’ are well aware of his many failings and failures, but felt that there were other more important issues.

I didn’t vote Tory but can sort of understand why some people did.

Labour lost almost 8% of the vote share nationally. The conservatives picked up only 1.1% of that.

It's not that people voted for boris, it's that they didn't vote for labour.

I didn't vote labour because -

My local Labour candidate is a liar. She takes credit for campaigns she has had nothing to do with (yes I have first hand knowledge of this, I was involved in something she refused to assist with then knocked on doors claiming it was her success).

I emailed the labour candidate before she lost her seat and her replies were appalling, basically her constituents are thickos who need to just be quiet and do as she says was the jist of it. Oh and I'm a big old bigot. (I'm center left fyi).

Corbyn and McDonald are a terrible option for the country. Their policies are rediculous, they are unaffordable. Their childcare policy would expect me to work more hours for less money.

Personally, I do believe in personal responsibility, with a good safety net. DH and I pay for cleaners etc for both our parents because they are unwell and getting on in years for example because why should anyone else be responsible for that? We can just about afford it so we do it. Save the money in the pot for people who really need it.

PFIs were a disastrous mistake which are costing the NHS and education a small fortune. That was a labour policy.

The traditional labour safe seats are disappearing because people are fed up of smug 'i know better than you because I went to university and went to work immediately for an MP' types who haven't worked outside the Westminster bubble lecturing them. At least Boris makes the pretence of listening to them.

The newly elected MP for Wakefield made a great speech. He said that he is there to represent the views of his constituents because that's who he works for. I think many MPs in safe seats have forgotten this. It has lead to a rift between the traditional voter and their parties. For the first time many of my family members didn't vote. They couldn't bring themselves to vote for labour and in their areas a vote for anyone else is unthinkable.

So (after much waffle) I don't think, in my circle I can't speak for other, that people necessary preferred Boris, it was that they couldn't stand Corbyn. Labour cost themselves this election.

I think Will Hutton in today's Guardian sums up why people voted for Boris.

...Johnson might be a narcissist, a twister, a liar and a toff – but in his witty one-liners and breezy optimism they recognised him, however rogue and untrustworthy, as a member of the English officer class, on the battlefield, at least. Corbyn, in contrast, would have been at home as a conscientious objector. You can respect that position. But a majority of the British will never elect such a man their prime minister...

I couldn't have voted for either with a clear conscience.

Boris: a manipulative liar, misogynist, racist, hateful man. Somehow he got the turkeys to vote for Christmas 🤷‍♀️None of us will see a better NHS or any sort of public services under the conservatives - most of us will be worse off under them. Way too right for me.

Corbyn: a 70's relic with all these pie in the sky nonsense ideas - free broadband, ban the private schools etc. And he kept flip-flopping over Brexit. Way too far left for me.

Politics seems to have become very polarised these days.

Luckily I live in Scotland & have an alternate choice.

I'll question the intelligence of anyone who believes that Brexit will be 'done' by 31/1/20, anyone who claims Boris has 'got a deal', anyone quoting "they said he'd never get the EU to reopen the WA" - (he basically went to the EU and got them to remove a huge concession they had made to May)

As for those swallowing/spouting the "Boris is very clever" line - I accuse them of being ignorant of his record - his minders basically kept him under wraps during the campaign because he couldn't be trusted not to spout offensive guff - a 'clever' man wouldn't need that.

I don't know if Boris is clever or not but he appears to be a much more effective leader than Corbyn. Many people think that is important, it doesn't make you unintelligent or awful to have different opinions/priorities and come to a different conclusion about who is the least worst to vote for.

@Frankiestein402

As someone who wondered if Boris is actually very clever I totally take on board your points. I just don't think you can rise to the top of politics being the complete buffoon that he appears to be, and I wonder if all this being "kept under wraps" and "not trusted to spout guff" is part of the act.

Well he's certainly more academically clever than Corbyn if people think that matters.

@Trewser - I was thinking more "evil genius" tbh 😁

@WobblyAllOver

If Labour and their supporters continue to call everyone else stupid they won't get anywhere at all. How is a party going to learn and move forward when they refuse to listen to voters?

I think this is true. I’d also say that Labour need to actually want the votes of centrist Tories again as Blair did.
At the moment Labour want to be a party that is just true to its core, fairly niche socialist values and to hell with the rest. Only once they actually want to attract conservative voters rather than hating them can they win an election.
I guess it’s up to them really. For the good of the country I hope they start courting the centre again as soon as possible but it’s not my fight.

milk I am of the 'evil genius* leaning. I think behind his buffoon is a very savy individual who knows exactly what he has to do to get what he wants. He acts like 'one of us' whilst planning his next move.

Evil genius? So he wanted Iran to keep nazhanin in prison and presumably pocketed the reporters mobile in order to embed malicious software - he wasn't hiding in a fridge - just looking for milk to offer a cuppa to the breakfast team.

People bought 'Get Brexit Done' over the prospect of handing Jeremy Corbyn the keys to number 10.

I read a post on another thread that said, essentially, all Boris’s gaffes, racism, intolerance and sexism is deliberately supposed to be provocative bantz to wind up lefties, and also is no different to what the average man in the local pub thinks. So... basically he’s a jolly japester with his finger on the pulse of the man in the street’s opinions. The worst and saddest thing is, the latter part is probably true.

I couldn’t vote for either so didn’t. But ignoring Corbyn & Johnson (I actually prefer Corbyn as a person) and going on policy only I’d have marginally gone conservative.

I cannot believe my area has gone Tory, it’s alWays been labour but talking to work colleagues, clients & customers (I work for a construction firm) they’ve all voted for Brexit and the economy. Loads of people said they didn’t think the companies they work for or run (lots of small businesses here) could survive under Labour’s policies.

They say Corbyn as Marxist and Johnson as pro British. There is a racist undercurrent in this area, partly caused by the fact there has been some extremism here. Large Pakistani,Bangladeshi community who keep themselves to themselves and often won’t associate with those of a different religion. Because of this people seem blinded to the fact that immigrants have saved our NHS and contribute to the economy. Johnson’s rhetoric appeals to them.

There are low educational aspirations in this area.

@OhTheRoses

Tony Benn was absolutely not working class! He inherited a peerage - Viscount Stansgate - though he renounced this. Do get your facts straight.

@MotherofPearl nowhere did I say Anthony Wedgewood Benn was working class. I drew a parallel between his upper class/labour party credentials and the working class/tory credentials of Heath, Thatcher and Major.

I shall be grateful if you refrain from telling me to get my facts right in such a patronising manner when you appear incapable of interpreting the nuance of what is written.

Ah, @OhTheRoses, I apologise - I read your post in haste and misinterpreted it - sorry. That's what comes from rushing.