"Corbyn is clueless about the working class" Janice Turner in The Times today.

[Trewser]

I found this article powerful and quite moving. Summed up a lot of what I instinctively felt about Labour but wasn't clever enough to express. Thanks Janice. I'm not sure how to share...

article

Even though I'm from London and am middle class, Labour under Corbyn does not appeal (despite voting Labour against Johnson on Thursday 🤔) it's absolutely no longer interested in being a broad church. It has become a cult.

Also, it's ironic about the"just about managing" which was the May mantra which failed dismally.

Thursday result should have been the result in 2017 and Corbyn should have been long gone by now. And we wouldn't be in the state we're in.

It's a comment piece in a newspaper. It's not a data analysis. Corbyn fan are we?

And this is what is wrong today. Anyone who has an opinion which differs is automatically assumed to be a fan of X or Y.

I am no fan of either of the showers of shit that we were forced to choose between in this pointless election which has left us in a worse situation than we were before.

"Comment piece" indeed. Which makes the point nicely, it is full of nothing of substance. I would actually like to read something which can actually explain what happened on Thursday and this isn't it. What happened to real journalism?

Dominic Cummins who grew up in the north east does (understand the working class).

He's as privileged as Corbyn. He's married to a woman due to inherit a castle. He understands how to manipulate the working classes, what buttons to press. Why else would the Tories have employed him?

www.spectator.co.uk/2018/12/benedict-cumberbatch-on-playing-my-husband-dominic-cummings/

Oh yeah individual councillors and MPs can be very good, whatever their party, but the slashing of public services and punishing of the poor has been general Tory policy for years.
Yup to soft socialism I guess.

His background is arguably slightly less privileged than Corbyn (state primary rather than prep, at least) but more to the point, he makes effective use of focus groups to find out what the voters think while Corbyn has fallen into the trap of only listening to his Momentum echo chamber.

Well it strikes me that Cummings is mostly motivated by winning. And that was what he was employed for.

You can sign up for a few free articles a week, btw.

The big problem is that Labour need to get rid of Momentum in the same way TB and John Smith had to do with the Militant group. Momentum are the equivalent and it never ends well. Labour need a new TB to purge them of Momentum and their influence. Until they do, and realise a whole slew of giveaway policies that were fantasy, they are not electable. They must move to the centre left and stop seeing people who make money as the enemy, especially if they live in the SE. These people pay tax. They are needed.

What needs to happen is reasonable safety net policies, better services in the north and an understanding that a cult leader propped up by left wing student politics won’t work. Labour need a grown up leader to clean up their mess. Whilst Momentum rule, it won’t happen!

Janice Turner could have also pointed out that for Corbyn and momentum the enemy are Blair and Blairites who are worse than Tories as they are traitors to Labour apparently.

Think it's going to be a long time waiting Bubbles

I was born and live in one of those northern towns which have switched over to Tory after decades of staunch Labour support

Janice has it spot on

Thé trouble is @BubblesBuddy that that sort of movement is far far worse than losing. The labour manifesto was for a fairly fundamental changing of society, not just fiddling a bit with what's there already.

momentum would rather lose again and again than change to that because it is selling out their beliefs.

I come from one of the Red Wall constituencies that turned blue. Bog standard working class family. This article sums up things on the ground there very well indeed.

Janice Turner's response to goading on twitter:

twitter.com/VictoriaPeckham/status/1205849520304803840

Excellent article

Corbyn, Momentum type of labour politics doesn’t speak for the working class it speaks at them patronizing us

Thatcher recognized and understood aspiration so did Blair that’s a dirty word now as is being proud to be British

Middle class angst and anger has dominated the left political agenda in recent years from the likes of Owen Jones, James O’Brien and Corbyn himself it’s time that Labour got back to representing us all and not being led by such a narrow view of this country and people

noodlenosefraggle - "Guardian journalists and their momentum mates think the working class are all scrubbing around in the last remaining coal mine while walking their whippets to the Working men's club."

Also a safe bet they were not strutting around the day before the election wearing T-Shirts emblazoned with "Will Suck Dick for Socialism".

Of course, none of them will have seen that photo because the working class haven't got free broadband, so if they have heard of Twitter they'll be thinking it is something to do with the pigeon fancy.

Or maybe some of them did see it and remembered when the Labour Party was all about the dignity of the working class.

I am despairing about momentum getting out of or being controlled properly by the Labour Party ever - I watched Lansman and Corbyn and you can see there isn’t a shred of acknowledgment that they massively failed a credibility test twice. You can’t blame brexit for losing 2 elections - or apparently you can if you have your head up your behind.

They lost in 2017 too, but because they beat expectations then it’s as if they failed to register that was also a defeat against an incredibly unpopular prime minister.

I don’t know when conditions will be better for labour than the two elections they’ve recently lost. Alan Johnson took Lansman down on ITV but the cult won’t listen.

I suppose we can only hope for the sake of the people that need a labour govt and didn’t get it that the tories move more to the centre to try and keep those working class voters...

If Labour splits it's going to be about who gets to keep the name. Why do I think it will be the Momentum wing?

There's a well written piece with similar themes but a bit more depth by Paul Embery in Unherd unherd.com/2019/12/is-this-the-end-for-labour/

Here's a snippet:

Labour must stop treating the traditional working-class as though they were some kind of embarrassing elderly relative. It must learn to respect those who, for example, voted for Brexit, oppose large-scale immigration, want to see a tough and effective justice system, feel proud to be British, support the reassertion of the role of the family at the centre of society, prefer a welfare system to be based around reciprocity – something for something – rather than universal entitlement, believe in the nation state, and do not obsess about multiculturalism or trans rights.

If Labour splits it's going to be about who gets to keep the name. Why do I think it will be the Momentum wing?
It's not just the name, presumably they've captured the party infrastructure. And as it stands, the big unions.

That Paul Embery snippet looks pure English nationalism.

Stephen Kinnock agreed that Labour should have been more patriotic.

I have no time for Nationalism and frankly don't think that most people are arsed about Britishness. They just want a chance to have decent lives without being hobbled by low wages, shit working conditions, teachers quitting every 5 minutes, dying high streets and unaffordable housing.
Patriotism is so low down the list for most people.

@SwedishEdith maybe you could read the full piece if you haven't - I thought it was an interesting exploration of the fact the metropolitan Labour leadership has moved far away from the views and experiences of many people from working class backgrounds outside big cities. Plenty of people think that being patriotic isn't a bad thing and that probably includes traditional Labour voters who didn't vote for them this time.

Patriotic about what though?