Prince Andrew Part 2

[SunsetBoulevard3]

Here is another thread to discuss the PA interview and its repercussions.

“ Admittedly I know nothing about the field but there’s got to be some work and talent to get to the Olympics etc.”
Yes. But money is also a key factor. And that was some time ago.

But money is also a key factor

So, I suspect, is having mummy quite so firmly involved with Olympic committees: www.royal.uk/princess-royal-and-olympics

That's not to take away from what may be genuine talent - only to point out that these things aren't always as clear cut as they seem

I just don’t get why he did the interview? What on Earth was he thinking? And he was mad enough to think it had gone well!! It’s made it all so much worse for him & the RF.

Because he is thick. So thick that he started the interview telling the reporter he was starting a job at who knows how much expense that he had no idea about, wasn't trained for and had no right to be given.

And he sees no problem with that.

I'm not so sure thats very different for many on the olympic team. To be achieving well at that level is what it is.

To be believe that the RF are the only ones that have inside tracks is U. They do have doors opened because RF, but then do all the wealthy of the world because of money.

When it comes to sport though its down to actual ability, in this case of horse, rider and trainer.

Taking that view means money influencers need toppling, not just RF.

I agree on the money aspect. I’m just saying out of them all, as far as I can see, she has done something which requires actual work of a kind. I’m not defending the sponsorships/business etc.

It's not just about him being thick is it? It's also the fact that they were all so convinced that we'd be satisfied with whatever crap he mentioned. We'd be so gullible and grateful that he'd deigned to give an interview to address it. They were not expecting the backlash, presumptious entitled arrogant fools.

The daughters are just like their parents, freeloading, scrounging, lazy and greedy. If the daughters take over his various patronages there will be huge outcry. It's totally unacceptable. To think they've all had the best education money can buy, yet not one of them had an ounce of common sense or sense of honour.

Is it just a near inevitable outcome of vast inequalities, given the huge gap between their lives and the lives of ordinary people perhap there is no way they could even hope to empathize or identify with them.... No way they could see us as anything other than mere peasants?
Perhaps it is time to declare the institution a destabilizing anachronism?

best education money can buy

Well no, I disagree. I have seen what some paid for and unpaid for education does to dc and its not the best, its just some of the most expensive.

There's a possibility that less would have been achieved academically at a less costly, or state school, but its about the ethos of the school and the way that shapes the attitude of the pupils and frankly some of the attitudes stink.

I don't believe its related to academic success at all. Someone's intellectual ability doesn't produce what this thread's discussing atall.

I don't know why its being discussed as such.

This is sexual deviancy under the microscope. Its not only amongst the intellectual, its across the board, at all levels of society, regardless of money, education, and intellect.

Money (power) and power certainly help when it comes to controlling and grooming though. That could just be the male head of a household though, or scoutleader, churchleader, youthgroup leader etc, just as much as business leader, or royalty.

I don't understand the allegation against him. Virginia Robert's says she had sex with Prince Andrew in London when she was 17 years old. She doesn't say that he raped her, she says they had sex and being in the UK, she was old enough to have sex with him? Or is the allegation that she was actually trafficked into Jeremy Epstein's ring under age and by the time she was 17, she was heavily coerced into sleeping with anyone Jeremy asked her to so actually, her encounters with Prince Andrew were coerced and technically not consensual because she was very young and manipulated? And Prince Andrew would have known this being friends with Jeremy? So effectively, Prince Andrew is accused of having sex with someone that was trafficked into a paedophile ring and it's believed Virgina wasn't actually able to consent due to coercion at a young age?

Have you been RTFT?

There is a flip side. As always ...

In days of yore, the Royal family were basically the one-family Ministry of Defence of the country. It was their job to keep their subjects safe and they risked all for that. Either as soldiers for the men, or as brood mares for the women. So there was a sense that they were earning their keep. However, over time, they've managed to slide out of putting themselves in harms way, but effectively kept the danger money.

All of which is highly ironic in the case of Prince Andrew, as uniquely amongst male heirs (Harry being the next notable exception) when the call came, he did put himself in harms way. Quite dramatically and quite essentially. There are probably a few Falklands veterans who owe him their life - or feel they do - that are feeling very conflicted right now. In fact by bringing the Falklands into it himself, all Andrew did is remind us that there were thousands of brave subjects that managed to serve their country without feeling the need to cosy up to socialite paedophiles.

Incidentally, I wonder how much further this can go before people start asking what the fuck was his protection detail up to ?. I for one, refuse to believe that Prince Andrew was able to conceal the already known levels of impropriety from them. Let alone anything more sinister. I wonder what they were reporting back to their superiors ? If I were a Royal Protection Officer I know I'd be damn well covering my back if my charge was up to the shenanigans Andrew has gotten himself involved in. I'd also damn well wear a seatbelt at all times.

Yes- his staff must know exactly what went on....

I keep coming back to the fact that security services sure do know what those the royals mix with are up to, and the royals themselves.

If they don't they all need bloody sacking frankly.

There is no point in intelligence services drawing possibly billions from the public if they can't actually do intelligence.

This story tells us either they can't do intelligence, or they protect peodos. Which is it?

I think the best way forward for
the RF is for the Queen to step down in favour of Charles.

It would change the course of the conversation and he could immediately streamline the family to his own sons, cutting out the Yorks.

They need to make a proactive move, do nothing at their peril.

The Queen, always lauded as the rock on which the monarchy stands, has shown some poor judgement here.

At 93, she needs to come to terms with her own limitations now and give Charles his turn.

The Queen is only lauded because she never says or does anything. Johnson’s actions earlier in the year shows that she does not provide the “checks and balances” that are always claimed, and this current debacle shows she has crap judgement. She should go. I don’t care if she’s 93.

Very well put, Bertrand

She should go. I don’t care if she’s 93

The whole institution of the Royal Family should go. It's the 21st century FFS. Give them £1,000,000 each, and tell them to fuck off and never be seen again. The nation can keep the land and property and treat them as a national resource like North Sea Oil and exploit them for the benefit of all.

I've never understood why the Queen has this 'never put a foot wrong' rep either. As @BertrandRussell says, she mainly does nothing, and that seems to constitute 'getting it right'. In making big judgement calls, she's often been wrong - the immediate handling of Diana's death, the appeal for funds to restore Windsor Castle, and now this. Not the best strike rate for knowing what matters to your public.

You're right @BertrandRussell, and I think if they ignore public opinion and try to ride this out, it will be ANOTHER massive mistake.

Totally agree with Betrand re. the Queen.

Also about security - so costs are started to be put forward as to how much security costs and honestly where were the protection officers when Andrew was up to his shenanigans? Do they not have a duty of care to those young women to report back if someone they are 'protecting' is up to nefarious activities?

People are agreeing with me!

I must not let it go to my head!

Why not BR? Your posts are always reasoned and you do try to be fair.

Regarding the Queen, I'm not getting into 'should she go or stay' I think she has done her best in some difficult situations but she is a human being so won't get it right all the time.

I get the impression that the Queen is extremely upset and disappointed by the Andrew allegations - and has put him in his place - but she's a great one for stiff upper lip. Whereas some of us, as mothers, would be shutting ourselves away and crying, she carries on, it's just how she is.

What I want to know, not in a prurient way, is why the other 'friends' of Epstein aren't being named and shamed. There are plenty of others who saw the man, took advantage of his 'hospitality' and patronage far more regularly than half a dozen times.

Do they not have a duty of care to those young women to report back if someone they are 'protecting' is up to nefarious activities?

No.

What I want to know, not in a prurient way, is why the other 'friends' of Epstein aren't being named and shamed. There are plenty of others who saw the man, took advantage of his 'hospitality' and patronage far more regularly than half a dozen times.

Named and shamed for what exactly ? Remember these are people who genuinely believe they have done nothing wrong who are surrounded by a cabal of hangers on who either believe the same, or are willing to pretend they do in the hope of some arslikahn favours.

I refer you to the murder Lord Lucan committed in 1974 and the immediate reaction of the Claremont set in protecting him and ensuring he got away.