Ethnic cleansing again.

[LinnetBird]

I know I have a thread already in petitions, but wtf is the point in this.
It's just making more people homeless, that the council will have to house.
It won't save any money, it will cost a fortune.
Whilst we have a van it's considered as a home, so applying to the council you are on the list the same as everyone else.
Take the van away we are homeless if we don't have a house, too.

I wondered how long it would be, the most of Europe have been cleansing for a while, but of course if it doesn't affect the majority it's hardly reported until significant change like this.

Nobody is talking about living outside of the law, and for those that do the Police are there at eviction, easy enough to deal with it then.

The Rights of Romany are slowly being taken away by changing laws to make it difficult to keep the identity.
it's sad that the majority of travellers are law abiding citizens living alongside the rest of society.
It's as ludicrous as suggesting everyone who lives in a house are like "neighbours from hell".
The saddest thing is being able to see all this, people you love and care for.
But society hates travellers and government will use such an unenforceable law to gain political advantage.
I don't have a dog, I only travel for part of the year for my work, and my accommodation (field) is obtained freely with free facilities and waste disposal.
It's part of my T&C's.

redeye

I believe they would have taken that rubbish if they'd been allowed access to the tip/ waste disposal.
Some towns are happy they don't have the mess that some awful people leave, but others point blank refuse to allow them.

We are lucky in that we are found to be interesting to people when we travel, and generally people are nice and friendly.
They are surprised we are "normal" I suppose that could be progress.
The rest of the year we have our inside home a nice 4 bed semi Edwardian house, on a lovely street

letting police kick trasspassers off land that isnt theirs isnt ethnic cleansing ffs

Honestly it’s the bad Roma/gypsy:travellers you have to blame for this.

Those who stay are peaceful and leave just tidy black bags and not destroy bollards to get onto land people don’t have a problem with.

It’s those who break into land, leave a mess, let the children run wild and where crime rates go up vastly that has caused the problem. You need to sadly look back into your own community.

The ones who used to visit the local field when I was a child where lovely and all us kids played nicely. The ones who camp up now steal from the shop, rob the pub, the kids steal the locals bikes and approach demanding money or else. They poo in the children park and let their dogs run wild. The parents are just a bad as heaven forbid you tel their child to leave you alone. It becomes a no go area.

Nobody is talking about living outside of the law, and for those that do the Police are there at eviction, easy enough to deal with it then

But it clearly is, the proposed new law is about adding extra measures on top of the trespassing law.

There is a reason why it has bubbled up and extra measures are being proposed onto already existing laws, it isn't because of ethnic cleansing nor racism which you initially said, and it kind of punches a hole in your initial argument when you try and say it isn't about those living outside the law.

In our local area, travellers recently moved onto school fields and, although it was only a small group there for a short time, the school had to shut due to health and safety as there were unknown people and unrestrained dogs wandering on the site. When they left, the school and the local council had to clean up litter and excrement including dirty nappies chucked into the long jump sand pits
This does not make local residents want to fight your corner
www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/people/travellers-move-on-from-aks-site-after-prompting-school-closure-1-9851399

It's not about living outside the law, it's about changing the laws to ensure that travellers aren't allowed to travel anymore.
As I said upthread the law evicts trespassers already.
If the LA's had done what they were supposed to and given land to travellers they wouldn't need to take the council land themselves.

What on earth it has to do with gay travellers marrying, beats me.

The most recent discrimination and racism is the result of 50 years of social engineering to force travellers into houses.
It is the right of travellers to be able to travel, whether the rest of society likes this or not. It's all of our rights to be afforded peace and safety in our own homes, that goes for travellers as well as gorgers.

Why don't all the travellers club together and buy plots of land all over the UK? This land would then belong to the travellers and they would be responsible for their sites. They could travel around the country all they like, from site to site, not trespassing on anyone else's property. It would then fall on each group to ensure the sites were in a decent state for the next visitors.

The OP is defending Travellers’ wishes to camp in lay bys/parks/wherever they fancy.

I ask where their chemical/toilet waste goes - she says she lives on a fully service site - SO NOT A BLOODY ROADSIDE THEN!

Unfortunately the ‘Travelling’ travellers (as opposed to organised site/Edwardian home residents) continue to TRAVEL and leave their shit everywhere.

Even the organised sites are an eyesore - drove past one yesterday - they’d chucked a knackered caravan into the lake they’re next to!

Evict she says, what chance do you think the local council have of getting fines paid?! Weirdly the caravans do a midnight flit as soon as fines start being issued - leaving their mess.

It IS living outside the law - you cannot just camp wherever you want and you cannot litter. Those laws are broken by Travellers ‘living their lifestyle’

I don’t inflict my lifestyle on anyone, why should they?!

Yes, I do expect to be able to pull up and stay on the side of the road temporarily when travelling.

Yes, I do expect to be able to live in my home, be that on wheels, without fear of it being confiscated.

I have never lived on a fully serviced site, I travel for work or I'm in a house.

There are plenty who find the Police there ready to evict, and as stated the Police have a chance to handle it then, making any arrests they have to.

Expecting an ethnic minority to just disappear into thin air, to remove their rights and culture, just wouldn't be allowed to happen to any other group.

We have the right to travel, the government are just making it harder for us to stop anywhere.
It will be interesting what Pritti Patel comes up with wrt where we do actually go.

Bunny

I don't personally know anyone who litters or leaves any mess, that's not to say it doesn't happen though.

Are all your teen boys murderers because a group murdered a travelling child? Of course not, doesn't mean it didn't happen though.

That's the problem with taring a group, people like Pritti Patel and the other "what about the mess" become racist.

www.travellerstimes.org.uk/news/2019/11/crowdfunder-launched-support-legal-challenge-against-racist-anti-traveller-injunctions

I will leave a copy of this here as well as the petitions and activist thread.

I don't personally know anyone who litters or leaves any mess, that's not to say it doesn't happen though.

Despite what you say, plenty do - you should try googling some time. Have you ever seen the state of Appleby after the Fair? Some travellers decided to stop at a park near where my sister lived. It was left in the most disgusting state, including dirty nappies and human excrement all over the park. There are hundreds of examples of this happening all over the country. Perhaps you can find an excuse for their disgusting behaviour - I can't. In addition shops and pubs experience a massive increase in theft and many put the shutters up and close their businesses while the travellers are in the vicinity. No doubt something else you have never experienced.

Silvery
Me: that's not to say it doesn't happen though.

Of course I've witnessed prejudice, and racism, with shops and pubs closing, being refused to make bookings at function rooms etc. It's ingrained in the gorger communities. You prove the point, my love.

Perhaps you can find an excuse for their disgusting behaviour
No, can't excuse for a minute, I understand but don't condone.
Us elders are fighting a losing battle too, we call it out if we see it, but they seem set in their ways.
I do doubt there would be half the mess and of course, it would cost councils far less to provide for travellers than clear up.
This is the reason some do it, so I'm lead to believe.

But let's not lose track of the purpose of the thread, a whole ethnic minority can't just disappear, so I'm wondering what will happen to those with nowhere to go? They can't stop anywhere, there are fewer sites than ever and there needs to be hundreds more.

You struggle to get planning permission for your own home/site.
Because people don't want to live next door/ in the same village as travellers.

I suppose it will be local authority or private renting, I can't see the latter tbh, as LL won't want travellers either. Families and culture being eroded through social engineering, racism and discrimination.

Thesisieces

Romany discrimination goes back way past the slave trade, at least 1500 years as we know, if you are particularly interested in history.
We do no longer have the slave trade, legally but we have plenty of discrimination, racism and ethnic cleansing of Roma throughout the world.

If shopkeepers close shops because crime in the are has gone up it's not the shopkeeper who are doing a trying wrong.

Not being able to live on the side of the road or wherever else you feel like isn't ethnic cleansing, for gods sake. There are groups in the world who are being violently eradicated as we speak, this does not compare.

It's been asked before, but can I ask the question again, most respectfully, of the travellers on here - why cannot travellers band together and fund their own sites?

Open your eyes and educate yourself is all I can say.
When a government is interfering with the way of life of an ethnic minority, making it impossible for them to keep their culture, identity and belief sounds like eradication to me.

It's fine though, it doesn't affect you and you can carry on in ignorant bliss.

mbosnz
It basically boils down to nimby.
It's nigh on impossible to get planning permission.
You can't just buy land and make a site, even if you plan to build a house/ bungalow, the minute they find out you are travellers the opposition starts.
If you have a minute check out the film on here it briefly covers what I mean.
www.travellerstimes.org.uk/features/new-film-challenges-hate-crime-towards-gypsies-roma-and-travellers

minty
I mentioned nc a start of thread, I'd changed it for something different, to protect family members identity. iirc it was education.

minty

Of course, but what laws are being broken that aren't already covered?
Trespassing is an interesting one.
Side of the road, used for centuries. new racist law, trespassing.
Open spaces and common land, previously free for all, new racist law trespassing.
Soon being a traveller will be impossible, not illegal because then the authorities would have to admit racism.

Why should anyone just be able to camp out or start living on the side of a road? Or on public (or private) land. It all has a knock on affect and clearly has caused a lot of problems and expense for local authorities and law abiding council-tax-paying citizens, hence why new legislation is suggested. It's not racist to expect the rules to apply to everyone.