I need to call social services about my friend - now what?

[bumblebrambles]

I have been worried about her for a while, and uneasy about her 5yo dd.

Last night I had a serious chat with a couple other mutual friends, and we are concerned that her dd is being put into very unsafe and inappropriate situations.

• Friend has loud sex with her boyfriend while her DD is awake in the house. Sex happens in random rooms like the kitchen, where anyone can walk in on them.

• Friend leaves her DD with a male friend overnight while she works night shifts. Male friend is older and lives alone, DD has mentioned seeing him naked.

• Friend gets falling-down, vomiting drunk while her DD is awake in the house, drinks during day and evening.

• DD has severe night-time anxiety, scared of sleeping alone, and has recently started wetting the bed after years of being fully dry at night.

• DD has been complaining of feeling sore around her vulva area, Friend claims she's taken her to the GP about it and was told this was due to her touching/scratching herself with dirty hands.

• Friend has become severely depressed after a recent abortion; she didn't have any therapy before or after the procedure.

• DD's life is very chaotic, Friend passes her off to whatever friend will have her, for hours - sometimes days - at a time. Gets other people to pick her up from school, leaves her to her own devices while Friend catches up on sleep due to working nights.

Typing it all out in a list really shows how bad it is. I didn't really understand the full picture until I spoke to our other friends last night - she lies about details and situations so things don't appear as bad as they are. I think she's going through a severe mental health crisis and needs support. I think her daughter may be being abused and needs to be protected. I have tried to give her advice, to help look after her DD, to be an example of stability, etc. But what she really needs is far beyond what I can give.

What details do I need to give SS when I call them?

(I posted too soon; apologies.)

Telling school is not the way to go about this.

At best, it introduces delay before they go through their own processes and relay 2nd or 3rd hand information to ss, with the inevitable 'Chinese whispers' effect.

Unfortunately, I have encountered some schools that are very poor when it comes to safeguarding. It’s possible a report to school could get lost in the system, or someone with their own agenda decides it’s not in their interests to contact ss. Schools have safeguarding policies but don’t always follow them very well.

Having worked with children for some years it’s sad to say, but the worst safeguarding foul-ups I have encountered have involved schools committing very basic failings.

And before everyone leaps on me, 100% if there are concerns of sexual abuse it should be reported - I just wondered if maybe the GP had already.

@OpheIiaBaIIs and what about if the child's mother never actually took her to the GP? It's better to be safe than sorry this is a child we're talking about.

Broken11Girl don't assume that she has directly questioned her friend about this - caution has to be exercised when speaking to a potential abuser/facilitator (which, much as OP loves her friend, she could be) as this can have extremely detrimental consequences for the victim.

Totally agree concerns should always be reported, it's about the child.
This case could be something or nothing. The girl's sore bits could be a totally innocent medical condition, maybe OP's friend did take her to the GP and GP was dismissive. Maybe she didn't due to depression etc but doesn't want to admit it, but it's still innocent.
It sounds very possible that OP's friend is suffering mh issues and an alcohol problem, surely an honest yet supportive conversation is the first step? Offering help with the DD, practical support, signposting to the GP, mh services, OP's friend can self-refer to ss. Sure, if this is all met with denial then take action but to gossip and talk to ss behind her back is just crappy imo. If you've done all this already OP fair enough and go ahead.

I contacted NSPCC as a student when I heard my neighbours screaming at all hours of the day/night. Regularly shouting about drug use and swearing at the kids who by my estimation were all under 7. I couldn’t listen through the wall anymore but didn’t know the first thing about them apart from their address. NSPCC were really helpful, let me report pretty much anonymously (they obviously knew I lived in one of the joined houses)

I really hope it helped those little ones.

Just try again later Op. all you need to do is phone SS, don’t worry about calling the school or NSPCC. SS will take care of it all. I agree you could also try the MASH or the police (child protection) both will action the report.

@duckyandbunny absolutely. My point was that if the child had been taken to the GP, the GP would have reported any concerns.

Ophelia not every sore vulva is down to sexual abuse and the GP obviously doesn't know the details of the child's chaotic home life.

The GP came to their conclusion without the additional information.

Yes, it does sound like she needs help and you are doing the right thing by reporting. A side point, if the child has returned to bedwetting and has a sore vulva, she should be screened fairly urgently for type one diabetes as this could be a possible cause.

*When people say
Well I reported and SS didn't do a thing

How do you know they did nothing?*

Because my friend didn't know it was me who made the referral. She'd told me that someone had made an anonymous referral and she was contacted. They'd told her they wanted drug tests. No one came to visit (if they had then they would have seen the state of her house...) and they later told her they were closing the case.

I told them absolutely everything, and whatever social worker spoke to her got crucial information wrong that I had told them. They didn't listen to me at all.

I would have known if she was in trouble with social services because she would have, yet again, asked me for help.

They have let her children down.

If she took the girl to the gp yes the gp would have reported if any concerns.
This is why the gp isn't my main concern. It may be completely innocent.
But it's not just about the gp.

It's what she's seeing.
It's not nice seeing anyone falling around drunk,
It's not seeing someone regularly throw up.
Imagine how this could be having an impact of a young child.

The bed-wetting may be linked to the genital pain. But it might not be.

Until someone who has the training to go and broach these issues, no-one can be sure.

Ok she's 'just' being neglected.
They still need support and SS can refer them onto elsewhere.

Trust me, I really don't like SS. Had so many, many bad experiences with them. Still doesn't stop me from being in contact with them when it's needed. And this girl needs it.

Oh, OP, what a hard thing to do, but so glad that little girl has you and your friends looking out for her. It sounds heartbreaking.

Illbe sure, and yes abusers can seem like normal lovely people...this is so difficult to advise on from a few posts on the internet...it even depends on how close a friend this person is etc... I'd like to think I'm a good judge of character. I would try a conversation but be open to it not going how I wanted and prepared to call her GP, the mg crisis line or ss or all of those that day if I remained very concerned.

I'm not sure the OP shouldn't expect SS to do anything, based on a few negative experiences tbh.

It can be like a postcode lottery when it comes to public services and some areas will be better than others.

Mh not mg

It sounds very possible that OP's friend is suffering mh issues and an alcohol problem, surely an honest yet supportive conversation is the first step? Offering help with the DD, practical support, signposting to the GP, mh services, OP's friend can self-refer to ss. Sure, if this is all met with denial then take action but to gossip and talk to ss behind her back is just crappy imo. If you've done all this already OP fair enough and go ahead.

Again with the 'gossip'. Have you not read the OP's update? It's even there in her opening post that the woman's mutual friends were having a serious conversation.

Why did you read that as 'gossip'?

And how long would it take for the little girl to get the help she deserves, if the OP were to follow your advice?

SS first, so the little girl's life and safety can be looked into. Meanwhile, either SS or the OP can put her in touch with other relevant professionals.

Just because it seems to you they did nothing they would have.
They would have contacted the school and gp.
She might have tested and passed on that occasion. And even then it could depend on the drug I think.
They did their investigations behind the scenes and came up empty.
If it was anonymous, how would she know it was you?

Mine were also said they were anonymous. Sometimes asked if there was anyone I could think off who would do it.
It was those who reported me afterwards who asked either directly or indirectly. Did I tell them all the details? Hell no. And she told you, they asked for something and later closed the case. Nothing more to tell you really.

Messy home, would have to be a pigsty. One of mine was my place was a dump - yea of course it was. The washing basket had some dirty clothes. A couple of things in the sink that needed washing and kids toys out. And when the SW arrived, more concerns would be raised if show home tidy. It goes beyond the state of someone else's home.

Yes, there's dust around. Sometimes the bin should have been emptied a bit sooner. Floors could do with a hoover etc. Mess happens.

If there are various people picking up the girl from school, school will be aware of this.

I've made the report.

I understand this is an emotive subject, but please rest assured I have no malicious intent.

I have tried to support my friend, but there is only so much I can do, and only so much she will accept from me as well. I have tried.

Now that I understand the bigger picture, I had to report it.

Multiple people picking up her dd wouldn't mean a thing.
People do have shared arrangements where a group of parents get together and help each other out.
Added with the mum working nights, it would make sense.

However. Add that to something else, and on and on.
You get the 'Big Picture'

you are supporting her and her daughter by doing this op.

Good for you op now you can forget about it for a bit. Hopefully things will start to improve

Well done OP

Well done @bumblebrambles
You did the right thing for the child.
Everything else shouldn't matter. You did what some wouldn't do. 👏 👏