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The North

301 replies

ILikeyourHairyHands · 08/11/2019 22:18

I've seen yet another thread where the OP is lambasted for being in a SE bubble (she was in a bubble tbf, but a bubble of incredible dimness), and many posters talk about The North as a place of scant opportunities, cheap housing, low wages and general divorce from The South, which is generally considered as the land of milk, honey, opportunity and high house prices.

It's very divorced from my experience of both places. I'm from an area in The North that is one of the wealthiest political wards in Europe, I went to work in the city after University (25 years ago) and despite having a very middle-class upbringing and accent, my flat vowels were treated as something of a curiosity (and they're really not that flat, everyone up here considers them 'southern') and Sheffield, my home city was, and still is, perceived as being some 'flat cap and whippets' place, despite having one of the highest proportions of professionals per capita in the UK.

My take from that experience was that born and brought-up Londoners are the most parochial people that I'd ever met. I had a much more 'worldly' experience being brought up in thr middle-class North than that of the supposedly urbane Southerners.

But still it goes on, people speak of The North as some kind of otherworldly shit-hole where the denizens scrabble around for cheap terraces on MW jobs and anything worth happening happens in The South.

Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield, Newcastle, Durham, York, the smaller towns and places where there's a huge amount of creativity, wealth creation, and professional people living fine and prosperous lives, and have for generations.

I just cannot understand the stereotypes that divide us so badly.

And yes, I also know and understand industrialisation and post-industrialisation that has affected certain areas of the UK. I'd say the area of the UK that's been hit worst by post-industrialism is the Midlands though. But no-one talks about that, or the poverty in the SW, it's always THE NORTH.

OP posts:
lazylinguist · 09/11/2019 17:39

I'm a lifelong southerner who's decamped to the (rural, not city) northwest, so I've seen it from the opposite perspective OP. The stereotypes both ways around are ridiculous imo. I'm constantly Hmm at the number of people where I now live who seem to think southern accent equals posh/rich/city (as though there are no poor or rural areas and no working class people in the south). It is ignorant and absurd.

As for the weather, it's certainly crazily rainy where I live. I looked at a comparison before we moved. Where we live now gets more than double the rainfall of where we moved from! I still love it here though!

userxx · 09/11/2019 17:41

@ILikeyourHairyHands 1932 🤣🤣. Brilliant.

Ginfordinner · 09/11/2019 18:19

I'm constantly hmm at the number of people where I now live who seem to think southern accent equals posh/rich/city (as though there are no poor or rural areas and no working class people in the south). It is ignorant and absurd.

I agree @lazylinguist. Like you I am a southerner who moved north. I came across this when I first moved to Leeds from London in 1980. The attitude was "why on earth would you want to live here when you could stay in London?"

It is just sheer ignorance on both sides.

lakeswimmer · 09/11/2019 20:08

The problem with these threads is they always descend into an argument about who's part of the country is best when, in fact, pretty much everywhere has positives and negatives. In my view the route to happiness is appreciating what you've got so for some people it will be easy access to culture, public transport, shops and for others it might be lovely countryside, low crime rate, good sense of community etc.

I agree with a PP who said that rural notherners will have more in common with rural southerners than they will with the people who live in their nearest big city. There are great places to live all over the country.

user1497207191 · 09/11/2019 20:39

what annoys me is people referring to London-and-the-South-East as if it was all one place

You mean like people from London/SE who refer to "the north" as if it was all one place??

Paddingtonthebear · 09/11/2019 20:40

It happens the other way round too!

Oliversmumsarmy · 09/11/2019 21:00

I left at the beginning of the 80s and I was definitely further north than Sheffield.

The fact you point out there is a John Lewis in Sheffield says it all.

JacquesHammer · 09/11/2019 21:02

I left at the beginning of the 80s

Prepare yourself... don’t you think it’s possible things are different almost 40 years on.

Or that your experiences are no longer relevant as a current anecdote?

Oliversmumsarmy · 09/11/2019 21:15

Well I don’t think the weather or the people have changed.

JacquesHammer · 09/11/2019 21:16

Well I don’t think the weather or the people have changed

In 30 years.....?

You’re making yourself look silly.

DawnOfTheDeadleg · 09/11/2019 21:55

Given that oliver apparently thinks the climate prevented roller skating in the north in her youth, I'm not sure her account accurately describes life even before she left.

In other news, life in London now is exactly the same as early episodes of Only Fools and Horses.

MoiraRose · 09/11/2019 21:56

I'm Sunderland born and now live a bit further down the coast on the road to Durham and didn't actually realise how people in the South still have such old fashioned stereotypical views of up North until I watched Four in a Bed today. A woman from down South wasn't looking forward to a Northern breakfast because we don't know about real home cooked food or locally sourced food or anything organic and everything is out of a tin or is a greasy fry up! I was agog. And not in a good way...

TheSultanofPingu · 09/11/2019 22:20

I used to roller skate in the north during the early 80s, so it did happen even then.

ILikeyourHairyHands · 09/11/2019 22:23

I was pointing out there was a John Lewis in Sheffield in the 70s Olivers, when you were claiming it was all corner shops. I suspect I am wasting my time though.

OP posts:
Ginfordinner · 09/11/2019 22:36

In other news, life in London now is exactly the same as early episodes of Only Fools and Horses.

Or Eastenders Grin
And Manchester is like Coronation Street, Yorkshire is like Emmerdale and Liverpool is like Brookside.

FlamingoAndJohn · 09/11/2019 22:39

Can people also remember not to get London confused with The South. They are not the same.

DustyMaiden · 09/11/2019 22:45

I travelled up North recently, from Essex. I Was asked to teach dancing, have a party and where were my white stilettos.

shinynewapple · 09/11/2019 23:43

I find that Mumsnet is very much North v South but nobody ever mentions the bit in the middle.

Anyone else from the Midlands?

Awaywiththepiskies · 09/11/2019 23:53

There is a Selfridges in Manchester, and a Harvey Nicks. And Harvey Nichols has been in Leeds forever.

But I guess a lot of people south of the M25 can’t be arsed to see the majority of this amazing country.

GuiltyPleasure · 10/11/2019 00:02

I've lived in most areas of the UK, luckily I've managed right time, right place.. I grew up in Leeds, went to Uni in Leicester, moved to London in my early 20's. Moved to Bristol, then moved through work to Manchester. Final move was to York, which I love& where I am now. I've loved every place I've lived, but the only place I wish I'd stayed longer was Bristol, I could've definitely settled there, but York is a good second

Waxonwaxoff0 · 10/11/2019 00:22

@shinynewapple me! East Midlands.

x2boys · 10/11/2019 06:39

Have you ever actually been back Oliver since the early 80,s? It might surprise you things change in 40 years, in the 80,s I and every girl I knew sported a bad perm and frosted pink lipstick, people change ,fashions change ,people move on.

Oliversmumsarmy · 10/11/2019 09:00

Yes I have been back, Dp still has family there. Whilst the town looks better as I have said the people and weather haven’t changed. Different faces same old shit. Same grey clouds and constant drizzle

Their might be a load of shiny new shops in the town centre which they have paved over and put in a shopping mall but come out a couple of miles and the same terrace houses remain except the area is even rougher.
And no you wouldn’t learn to roller skate as someone would have knifed you to get them off your feet even back in the 70s

I think mumsnet comes from nice areas and nice families and can’t get their mind round that people still live in the middle of crime and poverty despite having a big department store a new shopping mall selling designer dresses a few miles up the road.

I have lived and worked in some of the most poorest areas of London and felt much safer walking home in the dark on my own than growing up in the area I lived for the first part of my childhood.

I have lived in the posher areas and that was just boring. Nowhere to go and nothing to do.
I have seen the place named on here and described as boring so it isn’t just me.

The main road through the “village” was a tearoom, hotel, supermarket, a couple of dress shops stocking dated clothing, various food shops and a few estate agencies back in the 80s

It is now estate agents, kitchen shops, designer boutiques and wine bars

Neither places are exactly great if you want to do anything or go anywhere as a young person.

DawnOfTheDeadleg · 10/11/2019 09:05

And no you wouldn’t learn to roller skate as someone would have knifed you to get them off your feet even back in the 70s

Which is not what you said originally. This is new.

I think mumsnet comes from nice areas and nice families and can’t get their mind round that people still live in the middle of crime and poverty despite having a big department store a new shopping mall selling designer dresses a few miles up the road.

I'm from an extremely poor area and where I live now is not naice, and shockingly I can still recognise what absolute shite you're talking. It doesn't require affluence to realise how stupid the roller skating comments were.

BarbaraofSeville · 10/11/2019 09:07

I think mumsnet comes from nice areas and nice families and can’t get their mind round that people still live in the middle of crime and poverty despite having a big department store a new shopping mall selling designer dresses a few miles up the road

What, like East London?

Of course there's advantages and disadvantages of the north, and the south, but there's no getting away from the fact that in northern cities, there's jobs, opportunities, high end shops, cultural stuff like museums, galleries, theatre, big city parks, stately homes, access to nice countryside and people on average incomes like teachers and nurses can buy their own homes instead of struggling in overpriced insecure rentals as they would have to in the south.

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