The North

[ILikeyourHairyHands]

I've seen yet another thread where the OP is lambasted for being in a SE bubble (she was in a bubble tbf, but a bubble of incredible dimness), and many posters talk about The North as a place of scant opportunities, cheap housing, low wages and general divorce from The South, which is generally considered as the land of milk, honey, opportunity and high house prices.

It's very divorced from my experience of both places. I'm from an area in The North that is one of the wealthiest political wards in Europe, I went to work in the city after University (25 years ago) and despite having a very middle-class upbringing and accent, my flat vowels were treated as something of a curiosity (and they're really not that flat, everyone up here considers them 'southern') and Sheffield, my home city was, and still is, perceived as being some 'flat cap and whippets' place, despite having one of the highest proportions of professionals per capita in the UK.

My take from that experience was that born and brought-up Londoners are the most parochial people that I'd ever met. I had a much more 'worldly' experience being brought up in thr middle-class North than that of the supposedly urbane Southerners.

But still it goes on, people speak of The North as some kind of otherworldly shit-hole where the denizens scrabble around for cheap terraces on MW jobs and anything worth happening happens in The South.

Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield, Newcastle, Durham, York, the smaller towns and places where there's a huge amount of creativity, wealth creation, and professional people living fine and prosperous lives, and have for generations.

I just cannot understand the stereotypes that divide us so badly.

And yes, I also know and understand industrialisation and post-industrialisation that has affected certain areas of the UK. I'd say the area of the UK that's been hit worst by post-industrialism is the Midlands though. But no-one talks about that, or the poverty in the SW, it's always THE NORTH.

Most towns have supermarkets ,now surely ,unless people live very rurally,who can afford to do their shopping in the corner shop ,this isn't Coronation street .I use my corner shop every day for milk, bread etc but I couldn't do a full shop there apart from being ludicrously expensive it just doesn't have enough stock .

I am sure there are a certain section of the population who don’t leave their area.

Even if their parents don’t leave, the children will because there is a free bus service up to being 16 and there is always something going on. I do find that a lot of the children I know have friends (through school, Ecas and family) in different areas of London and they tend to be a lot more mobile than those from even 5 miles up the road and outside of the tube/LTR network.

Even if their parents don’t leave, the children will because there is a free bus service up to being 16 and there is always something going on. I do find that a lot of the children I know have friends (through school, Ecas and family) in different areas of London and they tend to be a lot more mobile than those from even 5 miles up the road and outside of the tube/LTR network

Leeds, Sheffield, Manchester, Newcastle - all have public transport, buses, trams and trains.

But I don't think they are free for teenagers - and that's something that is useful

I'm not bothering to argue with Olivers anymore, if nothing else she's rather neatly illustrating the original point I was making.

In other news, it's gloriously sunny in my bit of the north tiday, I'm off to get me rollerskates on!

My kids struggled to roller skate near our house but because it’s on a hill (no stabbings).

We can, however go sledging at the back of the house in the winter.

In other news, it's gloriously sunny in my bit of the north tiday, I'm off to get me rollerskates on

Gorgeous here too. Need to get on the motorway in 10 minutes and decide which part of lovely Yorkshire to go to!

If I can get DS off his PS4

I'm not bothering to argue with Olivers anymore, if nothing else she's rather neatly illustrating the original point I was making.

Isn't she just!

Sadly, nowhere is immune from knife crime and it's on the rise throughout the country. But London as a city remains 'the most dangerous part of the UK'. Like any city, it has safe areas and no go areas, but it's nonsense to suggest it's safer overall than northern cities.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49923129

I'm off to get me rollerskates on!

Oh you naive petal. You’re in The North. They’ll be stolen from under you doncha know.

Gorgeous weather up here too and I'm only 5 minutes from a cycle path so might go on a nice bike ride after Rememberance Service.

Really really pisses me off that London is considered “the south”.

First time OH son visited us (from the north east) he went on and on about being in London.

We live in Dorset

Well with all due respect your OHs son sounds a bit dense.

Most of us are fully aware that the South consists of more than just London (indeed some of us might even visit the South and not be referring to London at all, shock horror). Indeed, my Grandparents and some other family members lived in Norfolk, parts of East Anglia, Essex etc.

Its the Londoners on this thread that keep bringing London up and comparing the entire North to London.

It works both ways.

Its the Londoners on this thread that keep bringing London up and comparing the entire North to London

We're going to go to Richmond today. Richmond, North Yorkshire.

I don't think that's like London. But it's in the North. It does have a theatre though, but it's a bit tiny

www.richmond.org/guide/museum-georgian-theatre.php

My take from that experience was that born and brought-up Londoners are the most parochial people that I'd ever met. I had a much more 'worldly' experience being brought up in thr middle-class North than that of the supposedly urbane Southerners

Having been brought up on the Notts /Derbys coalfields, Uni in the NE and now living in London (retaining my flat ‘a’) that isn’t my experience.

The reality is that living in London is not the same as in any other city whether it be N, S, E or W, to do with it being the capital, and massive. You either love or not what it has to offer, but what is in offer simply is not comparable with elsewhere in terms of range and scale. That doesn’t make it better or worse: other places have other advantages and benefits. House prices, shorter work commutes, whatever the local strengths and opportunities are, etc.

But what I get sick of is endless London bashing. The majority of people living and working in London are ordinary people doing their best to live ordinary decent lives. We get accused of being a rich privileged elite, ( but are not allowed to point out any discrepancy in job opps or salaries in the North or elsewhere..according to your OP) etc etc.

Like any city, it has safe areas and no go areas

London does not have no go areas. And neither do any other UK cities that I know of.

A higher crime rate does not = no go.

I've not indulged in any London-bashing Blouse, I said in later posts I like London and love visiting. And yes, when I was working in the city in the mid-90s, and the only norhern person in the company, there was an extremely limited idea of what 'the north' was like, and this still exists today, there are posts on this thread illustrating exactly that, and that is parochial, it's a small-minded view based on stereotypes, you don't get much more parochial than that.

I have a few friends who have relocated here (south coast), they are from Yorkshire, Lancashire, Cumbria and Merseyside. What I find interesting in “real life“ is that they all slate where they are from quite mercilessly using all the usual stereotypes!

Apart from Southern cups of tea, hard water and house prices, they still slate all of that

Leeds, Sheffield, Manchester, Newcastle - all have public transport, buses, trams and trains.

But, again, "The North" is a big place and most people won't live/work anywhere near those cities, and even those that do report a woeful service, i.e. no 24/7 service in most places, no free public transport for children. Near all the other towns, there are often no buses in the evening or Sundays. Our local city park n ride stops at 6pm, so completely useless for shift workers, theatres, pubs/clubs, etc.

There is also a pretty big geographical thing called the pennines with woeful transport between east/west, so "short" journeys as the crow flies can take ridiculous amounts of time, not helped by congested roads/railways.

For someone living in, say, Cumbria, they actually have a better train service to London than they do to some of those Northern cities you mention!

Have just had a walk to my local Sainsbury's ,the weather in my part of the North is lovely today bright and breezy no endless rain ,and it's quite often like this .

@x2boys Beautiful isn't it. It's a gardening day for me.

Am enjoying a day in the middle of Sheffield today. It is buzzing. There is a vegan market, a Christmas market, the sun is shining (for once) and everyone is enjoying themselves.

Hi @Ginfordinner - gorgeous day here isn't it? This morning I ran out into the Peaks. Less than an hour's slow run from my house in central Sheffield, and I was in the national park watching the sun come up over the hills. Then back into town for a vair naice coffee and brunch on Abbeydale Road. I love this city.

But, again, "The North" is a big place and most people won't live/work anywhere near those cities, and even those that do report a woeful service, i.e. no 24/7 service in most places, no free public transport for children. Near all the other towns, there are often no buses in the evening or Sundays. Our local city park n ride stops at 6pm, so completely useless for shift workers, theatres, pubs/clubs, etc

That comment was in reference to someone talking about London and the ability of children to be able to get out of their local part of London and get to the city centre. My comment was that there are also big cities in the North of England where that is possible as well. It's not just London that has all this amazing public transport.

And - as you correctly pointed out - there are also many places ALL OVER THE UK - where public transport is rubbish and people will struggle to get out of their area if they don't have a car. It's not something unique to the North.

But in the same way, there are cities in the North where children can use public transport, just like they can in London, to get to the city centre. It's not just a London thing.

It comes back to the point that the more significant opportunity divide is cities and their hinterlands versus smaller towns and rural.

NB the Christmas market cabins are up but not open yet. Still had a good day in Sheffield. The tram system is excellent. It's a pity they don't come as far as where we live.