Insta-Mum Drama

[rosybell]

Is there already a thread about the instamum dramas involving MoD today?

She mentioned her using the race card, does that automatically mean anyone who mentioned someone doing that men they r racist?

In short, to answer your question: yes.

We could all do the mental gymnastics like some are, to justify or explain away the prejudiced remarks or we can recognise ignorance where we see it and hope lessons can be learned. Racist comments are racist.

Sex work is work

Nope.

I don't wish to cause any offence, nor do I in any way wish to profess to have a better knowledge or understanding of racism than women of colour. Please don't think I am in any way trying to whitesplain racism! I appreciate that my theoretical knowledge on the subject does not in any way trump real life lived experience of women of colour.

What I do understand, as a lawyer, is the importance of actually assessing the evidence and the context in which things are said. What I am saying is, there isn't enough evidence for me either way based on comments about one specific person, without knowing if those comments are factually accurate. Defamation isn't defamation if the critical statement is true. Likewise, if a statement about one person is factually accurate, that would likewise not be racist.

Btw one of the major reasons for the higher mortality rates is a greater genetic predisposition towards preeclampsia. In failing to acknowledge that, and thus leaving the inference that it is all due to dual standards of care towards black vs non-black women, Kele etc are in my view being slightly disingenuous. Tell the whole story or don't tell it at all. Don't cherry pick to make the opposition look worse.

I don't know enough about CB to form a view on whether MoD's comments were actually racist or just ill advised. I hadn't even heard of her (CB) until two days ago. What I do know is that some people will rely upon a perceived inequality as a first line of defence whenever they are challenged. I have seen women who are in professions where they are in a minority who cannot take criticism who will always, always say that every time a man criticises them that it is due to sexism, even when any objective outsider can see that on that particular occasion, the criticism was justified and nothing to do with her gender. This might be completely irrelevant here, but if CB does the same but with her race rather than her gender, then MoD would not be racist for pointing out imho. Or, maybe she doesnt do it and MoD IS racist. It could therefore be either, I would need more evidence to draw a conclusion, and that's why I am not drawing any conclusions, just pointing out that racism isnt the only explanation for MoD's comments.

I think MOD has shone a light on how a lot of people really think. These comments many of you see as benign are racist. I am not holding my breath that she will confront her racism and use this experience to start a proper conversation with her white followers to lead them and to start dismantling their own. But imo that would be the best thing for her to do.
Perhaps reading this would be a start. White people are all complicit and we have to start doing the work.

www.amazon.co.uk/Me-White-Supremacy-Recognise-Privilege/dp/1529405106/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PAZQ0N812SL2&keywords=layla+saad&sprefix=layla+sa%2Caps%2C137&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1573568136&sr=8-1

MOD isn't just racist, she's revealed herself to be generally quite bitchy, competitive and spiteful. The complete opposite, in fact, of her contrived public image.

Wasn't her thought process 'I need to write comments that I wouldn't usually say so people think it can't be me as I wouldn't say that'? Without realising that pretending to be racist means tapping into your own racist thoughts to know what to write??

I was thinking the way I was because I am always "using the 'disability card'" with my husband as dyslexic so I have short term memory issues so my husband will say something and i forget and i always will say I forgot things due to dyslexia and sometimes it isn't that, my husband points it out to me all the time doesn't mean hes against disababled people just means I'm always using disability card. So their are instances when this can happen.

Then Rose, take off your 'lawyer' hat and think outside of a legal context, in an ethical and moral one.
(Btw I am in the same field as you are and I have to say I'm surprised at your views).

Also does that mean that noone has ever used the race card or none should ever call anyone out on using it because they will b racist?

It's racist. It's been said.

the phrase "using the race card" IS RACIST

I absolutely don't buy your 'I'm disabled and I'm always using the disabled card' argument, chicken. I'm just sorry you've come to a point where you would ever type that out, either because you're being contrary or because someone has actually made you believe that. Just awful.

I don't want to go too much off on a tangent about sex work but I read and educate myself as much as I can about it.

For some people I know it's not work, of course but for others, especially women in charge of their own bodies (no pimps etc) it is work to them.

We all have differing opinions, I'll leave it there as I'm no expert in that arena.

As a person who was bought by men for money. I can tell you when money exchanges hands there is no consent. It is rape, not work.

Pimps are despicable.

On another note.

As a woman of colour, for me anyone busting out the “race card” line or that class trope of black women are aggressive, is racist. It holds us back, it keeps us in our box and is belittling.
No it isn’t shouting the N word but it is a contributor to institutional racism.

A lot of these threads make me want to shout “sounds about WHITE”.

Classic*

So many typos from the side of the rugby field.

@BanKittenHeels thanks for submitting your lived experience, I didn't want to step on anyone's toes as stated I'm not familiar (only by reading/following stories by others) with an ounce of an idea (hope it did not come across that way, I apologise if it did)

Most of what I've read and come across may seem like a (not entirely new) new wave of feminism? Just the accounts and such I've read.

Liberal feminism tends to believe that “sex work is work”. Liberal feminism does nothing for women but reduce our requirements to sound bites and catchphrases.

Women need radical feminism for true liberation but this isn’t the thread for that discussion.

@BanKittenHeels I think you've kind of hit the nail on the head with your post there.

You can find both CB and MOD despicable. You don't have to take sides. They're both awful people in different ways.

And sorry for what you've been through

@BobbyNewport

You've got the nail on the head. They are both awful people.

I don't really discriminate between people that use their children's images for financial gain. It leaves me cold, but each to their own. However, if one of those people also uses racist language I discriminate like hell about that.

That's the difference isn't it? I think what both CB and the MOD/FODs do to make money is distasteful. I only think one of them is racist.

That's the difference isn't it? I think what both CB and the MOD/FODs do to make money is distasteful. I only think one of them is racist

MOD may be racist, but CB chose to make money by selling other women as a pimp. I don't think there's much to choose between them, tbh.

I haven't seen the documentary featuring CB but I'm generally of the opinion that all women in sex work are being exploited tbh.

A lot of these threads make me want to shout “sounds about WHITE

and as a white person it's quite eye opening how people are tying themselves in knots defending it.

It's rare to hear the word aggressive applied to white women, it's normally reserved for black women & how can playing the race card not be racist? When white women deflect, make excuses, lie are we playing the race card? Also if CH didn't like CB then fair enough but don't cosy up to that person simply because you want their skin colour to give you woke points.

And as another poster said you can dislike both CH or CB, its not an either or.

Also some posters on Tattle seem surprised that the story is so big. Trolling, mental health, social media are all big topics as are influencers (I also suspect some journalists don't like them). Of course it's garnered attention because the media is interested in catchy headlines & click bait. Mrs H not declaring aff links isn't in the same league.

@BanKittenHeels I agree

I am REALLY uncomfortable with the inference for the fact that MoD is somehow complicit in, or responsible for, the fact that five times as many black women die in labour as white women in this country, which is obviously a shocking statistic.

I'm glad you are uncomfortable because it is uncomfortable.

Racism is not just about middle aged gammon faced blokes making Bernard Manning style jokes about black people you know.

On another note, sex work is definitely not work.