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Why would some people want American style healthcare?

211 replies

FishCanFly · 01/11/2019 12:31

I mean, to abolish the NHS for extortionate private insurance?

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ArthurtheCatsHumanSlave · 06/11/2019 10:51

JenniR29 - Not Brexit no, these cross party committees have been working away throughout the last few years, but the election brings to a close all parliamentary business. So all these committees are on hold. If we change government,or loose MP's, who are on those committees they will have to re-group. A lot of wasted time and energy. It is a shame because I understand a lot of good work and co-operation had been achieved.

JenniR29 · 06/11/2019 11:09

Arthur So I suppose multiple elections in the past few years have done the country no favours in terms of getting anything done NHS or otherwise then? Interesting to know.

Does the committee get shut down for large debates (I.e. the Brexit ones) too?

AlphaBravoCharlieDelta · 06/11/2019 11:13

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JenniR29 · 06/11/2019 11:19

@AlphaBravoCharlieDelta

My worry is that it would end up unregulated and the most vulnerable would suffer. I could consider supporting it if there was a guarantee that wouldn’t happen. But as someone mentioned earlier public trust in political figures is in short supply.

The stakes aren’t quite as high here but I had to get the train to work a lot last year and the service was appalling, I didn’t get a choice of provider and the company made an obscene amount of profit without investing anything back into replacing its 1970’s carriages or improving conditions for its workers.

That’s how in my mind I view privatisation of public services, the government is perfectly happy to let the transport companies operate as they wish without a second thought for service users. And that’s not a life or death matter!

Oliversmumsarmy · 06/11/2019 11:28

I am going to say the NHS doesn’t need more money.

The wastage is massive.

I would say over the past 20 years our small family have cost the NHS close on £1million
Probably £800,000 has been on wasted tests and appointments with people who were not necessary and were nothing to do with what was actually wrong.

The NHS has cost our family probably close on £2million in lost earnings and private health treatment we have had to pay for.

An example of the wastage is for example Dd was working away when she became ill.

She phoned me and told me her symptoms.

I had the same thing when I was in my teens.

She ended up in a walk-in clinic where she queued for hours and instead of treating her for gastritis (or even sending her for a test) they admitted her to hospital for 4 days whilst they ran every test on her under the Sun.

That was 4 days in agony taking up an NHS bed for 4 days instead of a prescription that would have got her on the road to recovery.

The doctor in charge told her not to use doctor google and leave it to the professionals.

On the 4th day having been tested for everything they could think of the doctor finally tested her for Gastritis and it was immediately confirmed that is what she had.

If the NHS is to continue then the doctors and nurses and consultants etc need to start listening.

I went down to visit her and the other women in the ward were talking about every single one knew what their symptoms were for but it took doctors months trying to get them to listen.

All had wasted tests over a period of at least 3 months before they were listened to.

One ended up with a much bigger operation than if she was tested on what she thought the symptoms were in the first place.

I wonder how much money that would save.

There are so many other little things that on its own cost very little but rolled out over the whole of the NHS would save millions.

These are just things we have noticed when Dp has been in hospital over a long period of time.

How much more money is wasted on other things we didn’t see

AmeliaE · 06/11/2019 12:03

From my personal experience, the French system works really well. I can get doctors appointments when needed.
In the UK I had to wait two months to get a GP appointment in my area.
There are definitely other good alternatives out there to the UK/US ones. They are not perfect but definitely better.

Thehagonthehill · 06/11/2019 12:24

You could get a gp appointment when you need it here if we had enough GPS.
Changing the system won't magically give us the staff to deliver it.

Graphista · 06/11/2019 15:34

If the NHS is to continue then the doctors and nurses and consultants etc need to start listening.

This really is the MAJOR issue in the nhs.

I mentioned I believed I had endo on at least 4 occasions to 4 different hcps and was dismissed every time and on one occasion literally laughed at!

Endo dx 5 years after that hcp laughed at me.

Hcps need to stop being so fucking arrogant! And I speak as an ex hcp myself.

Patients generally speaking DO know their own bodies and KNOW when something is amiss.

The know if they're more tired than usual FOR THEM, they know if they're having more bowel issues than usual FOR THEM, they know if their periods are worse FOR THEM, they know if they're gaining losing weight and HAVEN'T drastically changed their calorie intake, they know if they're having more headaches than usual FOR THEM, They know if a pain has worsened or changed FOR THEM.

Any hcps reading (they rarely respond on such threads or to critical posts) PLEASE LISTEN to patients and STOP dismissing them

Graphista · 06/11/2019 17:10

“This is not a new thing caused by lack of funds.” You’re right of course, my own issues go back to the early 80’s.

But underfunding makes the problems worse/More likely.

“Insurers are bastards generally so I would be afraid of having to rely on them for healthcare. They do anything to avoid paying out.” Definitely!

“it’s not nhs or USA system...” posters - WE are not saying it is but we ARE seeing that this current govt:

1 Are regularly meeting officially to talk with USA health insurers, health providers and pharmaceutical companies and NOT meeting/talking with their equivalents in europe or elsewhere outside the USA

2 are ideologically underfunding and under resourcing the nhs.

3 are talking the nhs down - very subtly they’re not completely stupid and know being overtly anti nhs would be an election loser

4 are regularly misleading voters as to how the nhs is organised, funded and managed

Even IF you consider eg one of the other European country’s models, I’ve yet to get on any of these threads (I do understand why but the point is the lack of info we have) a clear and based on experience answer as to how well those countries serve the health needs of the least well off in those countries.

I’ve been given links as to the official regulations in such cases but no information on the reality of access and implementation which deeply concerns me.

Even here, strictly speaking ALL should have access to healthcare, the reality is if you’re homeless, have certain conditions (I’m particularly thinking of mental illness and learning disabilities) or are otherwise more vulnerable it can be incredibly difficult to access healthcare.

Health tourism while a minor issue in the grand scheme of things, ALL unnecessary additional costs eventually add up and mean there’s less funding and resources for everyone.

Personally I think having a policy of expecting the vast majority of people to be able to provide proof of residency and if not proof of insurance is the way to go. There can and should be a clause to show more compassion to those who obviously have reasons for having difficulty in providing this.

I have at times wondered if we should be running things in such a way that the vast majority of people know their national insurance number, ironically similar to how USA citizens seem to know their social security number.

Anyone who like me has spend a lot of time dealing with the benefits system will be used to this I certainly know mine off by heart and many people who don’t have good memories could note it somewhere that they always have to hand.

Again I know this could be problematic for a minority who’d struggle with this but measures could be put in place to mitigate this as much as possible.

Jux I very much sympathise with your socialist opinion but honestly having worked in the nhs and had a LOT of dealings with the nhs as a patient and mother of a patient it’s really not just underfunding. There’s a huge amount of wastage and mismanagement (partly from corrupt practice it must be said, partly outdated practices like sending appointments by snail mail! Also major issues with poor IT infrastructure and poor administration, even as a low level nurse i noticed supposedly full time administrators at management level regularly having Fridays/Mondays off, leaving early etc) but also because of the attitude to health we have in this country.

An awful lot of savings could be made by practicing more preventive and proactive healthcare.

Advance screening for conditions, regular I would say annual health checks for all, this would likely identify many issues BEFORE they require expensive secondary level treatment eg high blood pressure BEFORE someone has a stroke, high cholesterol BEFORE someone has a heart attack.

My particular bug bear on this is SO MANY patients are, at primary care stage, when they present with minor but chronic symptoms they’re fobbed off even completely dismissed, MAYBE prescribed medication for the symptoms which merely mask the problem and told to “come back if it gets worse” NO properly dx & treat the problem NOW.

This would save money and resources in terms of fewer gp appointments, not paying out for years even decades of the masking meds and the time for gp appointments or time reviewing for these, patient much less likely to BECOME more sick requiring secondary level or even a&e care (which is VERY expensive). It even saves the country money in costs not related to the nhs directly in terms of days off, even in patients becoming too sick to work and then needing benefits.

It is SO short sighted and long term more costly to merely “fire fight”

“I hate that a lot of the nhs is based on blocking people from seeing the right person, it’s all about triage and gatekeepers because the system assumes we are mostly time wasters.” Totally agree except I’d add it’s due in part to faulty financial regulations - it’s financially detrimental to gp surgeries to refer patients to specialists

“The NHS needs to do more to encourage people to look after themselves, no drugs and stop eating before you get to 20 stone”
On a surface level I agree but the issues around self care particularly addiction and obesity are MASSIVELY complex and go way beyond healthcare into education, environment, law and order etc.

I am overweight myself (managed to lose some weight a few years ago and not regain that but despite only having one meal a day at present I am still overweight - partly due to medication, partly as I’m housebound due to mental health issues so not very active and partly as I’m limited what exercise I can do due to physical disability, but I’ll admit also partly as food is the one pleasure I currently have that gives me ANY kind of mental boost through the day)

I’m also from a family stuffed full of addicts (not just substance but also gambling, spending, exercising) it’s behaviour that is very much taught/ingrained from an early age, there’s strong evidence of a genetic link (it’s one reason why I have NEVER smoked, taken any street drug and I very rarely drink alcohol I’ve been drunk less than 5 times in my life as I limit even what I drink per occasion, I have never even been in a betting shop or casino, I’ve never had enough money coming in to go down spending route and I won’t borrow money, at one point the exercise thing was starting to be problematic - was younger and much fitter then and was ‘a runner’ which then dh pointed out and so I reined that in), there’s also socio-economic, peer pressure and environmental factors. It’s extremely complex.

I have ocd and quite honestly I really believe part of why I’ve developed it is due to the addictive side of my personality. There’s some evidence to support this too.

Also many addicts particularly those with substance addictions are “self medicating” undx mental health issues.

2 of my relatives I firmly believe also had/have undx ocd with attendant depression and more general anxiety and they had problems with addiction, using drink to “calm” them. I’d say all of the substance addicts suffer and have for many years a level of depression and/or anxiety, including problems with insomnia, lack of appetite etc.

But yes, there are also elements with certain aspects of healthcare of personal responsibility. Personally as a long term asthmatic myself I don’t understand other asthmatics who took up smoking quite honestly at this point I don’t understand ANYONE under say 50 having taken up smoking, I’m 47 and certainly when I was of an age when most do take it up the risks were very well known, I also don’t understand wasting money like that! It’s SO expensive!

“The NHS isn't a free service, we all pay through our NI contributions.” I think I’m right in saying not JUST through NI contributions.

“You could get a gp appointment when you need it here if we had enough GPS.” If patients weren’t having to see gps multiple times for the SAME issue because it’s going undx and untreated there’d be more gp appointments available and possibly fewer gps needed.

JenniR29 · 07/11/2019 10:46

Funny this came up on my twitter feed this morning:

www.bbc.com/news/health-50330807

DGRossetti · 07/11/2019 17:24

.

Why would some people want American style healthcare?
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