Why would some people want American style healthcare?

[FishCanFly]

I mean, to abolish the NHS for extortionate private insurance?

Also @KipperTheFrog many of the risks during pregnancy and childbirth that were being looked for in the US system were tiny but when it’s your child and your health you just want everything to be ok. That’s not to say I don’t want to have equality but it’s a tough choice if it means potentially giving up an ability to mitigate a health risk for yourself.

Perhaps because they think that they can make money out of it, or their friends can?

Actually American birth is a whole other argument against the insurance culture - there is much in their model that isn’t in women’s favour

Terrifying that people think it’s a good idea.

Highlight one post where it is considered a good idea

I lived in the USA without health insurance, never went to the doctor, didn't dare, couldn't afford it. I live in the UK and have private health insurance. Actually using it is such a palaver. So many hoops to jump through before they approve treatment and then we still have to pay 25%. My daughter had an operation done privately and the only plus was that we had more choice over the date. The NHS could have treated her on a similar time frame (this was before Tory cuts). She got her own room in the private hospital, had she been in an NHS hospital she'd have been on a children's ward with lots of other children to play with and lots of toys. She'd have had children's nurses (she did have a children's nurse) dressed as such and children's food. She would have been in a recovery room after the operation with other children and not adults patients telling her to stop crying. Also, the treatment on the NHS was better. Her hearing tests were in a sound proof room with lots of specialist equipment not just the doctors whispering in a corner and asking if she could hear him, which was the case privately.

UK health spending per person, per year: $4,246
UK infant mortality rate = 3.8 per 1,000 births
UK average life expectancy = 81

US health spending per person, per year: $10,209
US infant mortality rate = 5.7 per 1,000 births
US average life expectancy = 79

Justanotherlurker I never said anyone who posted thought it was a good idea I said ‘people’ not ‘posters’ clearly not all people and largely the wealthy or those likely to get even richer on the back of changes around privatisation.

Mothers as a group have good reason to be suspicious of anything that could penalise those who suffer physically or look after others who do at a time whilst economically disempowered. There are plenty of lobbyists who don’t share these concerns.

We live in another Eu Country. They have a similar system to NHS. But certain things you pay extra according to earnings. Ie my pregnancy/delivery will cost around €1500 total. But for people who earn less or in receipt of certain benefits it would be free/cheaper.

The main things we pay for are things like scans, vaccinations (non-compulsory ones ie for travel), private rooms and similar.
All general day to day checkups, emergencies, gp appointments, actual hospital stays are free for everyone.

It definitely needs some kind of reform. At the moment the way the NHS is functioning (due to underfunding) it’s unsafe for both patients and staff. But I read a statistic recently that over 50% of Americans are completely bankrupt within 2 years of being diagnosed with cancer. How can anyone argue that is a good thing?

I find that hard to understand.

Why anyone would want that is a real mystery to me.
Even if the nhs has failed you on one occasion, even if once you needed private, or someone specialist that you couldn't get on the nhs?

you must be able to see the general good of it. Surely?

Most Americans, in fact most countries would love to have what we have?

Why would you consider giving it up/away? Makes me really sad.

I work in a hospital and recently we admitted a 24 year old US national (in UK on a work visa) who was effectively a health tourist. She’d come over for expensive treatment for a chronic but very treatable cancer - the treatment would afford her a normal life expectancy. In the US her insurance had lapsed and she would have died within 5 years.

I think the NHS is still very good for true emergencies, intensive care and some cancer care. It is failing in primary care, old age and end of life care. It is chronically starved of funds and clinical staff. It felt like a much more sustainable and optimistic place to work when labour were in power. We really have paid for the financial crisis. There will soon come a point where we have to make some choices. There are feasible options other than the US model.

The NHS is the UK’s burden. It cannot afford to continue to be free at the point of use. The obesity epidemic is starting to hit and will bankrupt it in the long run.

People think they can live as they want, smoking, obesity, etc and the NHS will pick up the pieces

I don't support the US system. And the NHS is extremely important. However, in a word: choice. Choice of doctor. Choice of treatment. Autonomy. The ability to go to a specialist direct rather than a GP, which can be a waste of time. Eg I have skin issues, I need a dermatologist not a GP. Significantly shorter waiting times (I used to live overseas, not US, and I just popped to the hospital on my lunch break when I needed an xray as part of my health check)

I support the NHS principles and would not want to move to a US model, though I would be willing to pay more towards the NHS.

I think their perception of the UK though is that our healthcare is restricted and substandard. One area of comparison is maternity care which I understand is more doctor led in the US. Midwives appear to be seen as a bit of a hippy-ish choice of HCP. Expectant mothers are seen far more regularly and are monitored more closely in pregnancy, including frequent scans. There appears to be an expectation that the doctor you have seen all the way through pregnancy will be the person who delivers your baby, not simply whoever is on duty. I also think they give more pain relief and earlier, and are more likely to be in a private room.

I can see how, if that is what is normal to you, then the UK would seem quite utilitarian in comparison.

For us if there had been an American style health care. Then a lot of the ailments that we as a family have had to endure over our lives would have been sorted and not blighted our lives for years until we have ended up going private and getting them sorted properly with an actual diagnosis instead of the guessing game the NHS seems to rely on to keep costs down but which end up costing more.

I have spent years in agony with a stomach ulcer and at another time 7 years walking around (with the help of a zimmerframe) with a slipped disc that was diagnosed as I needed a new hip but I wouldn’t get one till I was 60.

Dps weight went from 17.5 stone to 9 stone in a matter of a few months along with other symptoms and the doctor said there was nothing to worry about he was just stressed.

He has developed type 1 diabetes

Dp went back to the doctors on multiple occasions with all the classic symptoms of bowel cancer. He was given a prescription for different suppositories on each occasion and was finally diagnosed in A&E with bowel cancer that had already spread.

Dp has been hospitalised 3 times when in the US. The treatment has always been excellent and speedy.

At least if the doctors was private it might make the doctor actually listen to what a patient is telling them and not do this thing where they treat one symptom at a time in order to save the NHS money because it doesn’t work and ends up costing the NHS more money overall.

I reckon when I had my slipped disc I must have cost the NHS £50,000 on wasted treatment in order to save the £300 that an MRI cost.

At the very least your records would not get lost and you could sue for misdiagnosis

The NHS is definitely on a pedestal in this country. I've been on the receiving end of both excellent and abysmal care.

It's not a free service anyway, those who work pay tax. The fact that not enough is allocated to the NHS and it seems to be inadequately managed is another matter.

I do think that we need to start paying more to improve the quality of service. Paying for GP visits would be a start.

@MadeUpMyMind

But I read a statistic recently that over 50% of Americans are completely bankrupt within 2 years of being diagnosed with cancer.

I really wish people would do a bit of fact checking before posting rubbish things like this. The actual figure is 3%. 55% wind up with debt of over $10,000 but it's not solely due to treatment costs. Traveling costs and missing work factor into it too.

www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2015.0830

All insurance has to cap your out of pocket expenditures per year. After we spend $5000 as a family we pay nothing.

@velveteenfruitbowl income tax is necessarily means tested. You pay what you can according to your income. A separate funding system would effectively take the same money, do why have two funding streams? And if people can't afford to pay more tax, how can they afford to pay more for their healthcare?

I work in a hospital and recently we admitted a 24 year old US national (in UK on a work visa) who was effectively a health tourist. She’d come over for expensive treatment for a chronic but very treatable cancer - the treatment would afford her a normal life expectancy. In the US her insurance had lapsed and she would have died within 5 years.

This shows the best and the worst about the NHS.

Free at the point of delivery, but burdened with a lot of misuse.

Whilst I don't think our nhs system is perfect I do think it is generally very good, and the fact that it is free at point of access is obviously fantastic.

I think on the whole maybe I have been lucky with our system.

GP: I can phone at 8:30am and get an appointment same day, though can't chose the doctor; for routine appointments I can book I advance with the gp or nurse - normally need a week or so in advance either my phone or app.

Prescriptions: using an app I can get repeat prescriptions within 2 days; I don't get free prescriptions but pay annually

Flu jab: I can go to my local pharmacist once a year and get a free flu jab with no issues, I can pay £10 for my teen dd to get one once a year too. No delay.

A&E: used this 3 times this year for a heart issue. A;though the general wait is advertised at 3-4 hours, as it's my heart I have been seen each time within 5 minutes or so, and treated with divinity and care throughout my time there, with lots of attention given.

Hospital treatment:

Arthritis - I see a doctor in rheumatology every 6-12 months at no extra cost, I receive treatment, check ups, blood tests, scans, follow ups, and medication as well as my annual 10-15 minute time with a consultant. I,was first seen my the department less than a fortnight after visiting my gp.

Recent heart issue: within 4 months of my first a and e visit I had a procedure on my heart, which I'm currently recovering from. It was delayed by 3 weeks initially which was frustrating I admit. However when I looked this up it would have cost £15-20k to have it done private. It wasn't an emergency though will/should make my life more pleasant after these first few weeks/months. The delay was 3 weeks so all in all not bad anyway.

Past pneumonia: saw gp a couple of times who monitored me and even saw me at 7pm one evening out of hours. On next visit he referred me straight to hospital where I was admitted and treated for 4 days, then monitored in release for a month after.

Pregnancy and birth: monitored throughout, great attention and service at hospital following an induction and c section.

Previous two minor ops: none emergencies but treated fairly quickly, though did encounter some delays. Ops would have been around £5-10k each time, plus follow ups and a lot of mediation after for 3 months each time.

And all of the above - free at point of service. Whilst I can afford private medical care should I choose I just haven't felt the need. Our NHS has served me very well and continues to do so.

Goodness knows what my medical insurance cover would cost under an American style system these days!just seeing the increase on my annual travel insurance for this year was bad enough!

ChardonnaysDistantCousin

So this American woman wasn’t charged for her treatment here?

That's how I read the post, the poster says she basically came here as a health tourist.

If I've misread it then I apologise.

Then that is fundamentally what is wrong with the NHS

Why are they banging on that they don’t have money yet are giving stuff away for free that they should charge for.

The NHS is free for British people not to cure the world.

We had to spend £79000 to have an operation that should buy him 2 more years because the NHS money wouldn’t stretch to paying for it. Yet we treat the world for no charge

Buy Dp 2 more years

aragog I think you’re incredibly lucky, it at least in an area that isn’t suffering as much as others. My medical care during my first pregnancy and birth was awful, to the point I refused to consider getting pregnant again until I knew we could afford to do it all privately. With dc1 I gave birth entirely alone while my dh searches for any medical reason to help, I’m a general ward as no space on maternity and whilst I was pushing (alone and terrified my baby or I would die) a drunk man pulled back the curtains (and left them open and told me to stfu as his wife was trying to sleep). All reported to PALS who seemed unconcerned and unsuprised.

I do still think the NHS is an incredible service. But it’s been so underfunded for so long that I genuinely think it needs to be entirely reformed in order to be functional.