Why would some people want American style healthcare?

[FishCanFly]

I mean, to abolish the NHS for extortionate private insurance?

Another Brit the US, my experience of the US system is that the quality, choice and speed of care is miles better than the NHS. Yes it can be expensive but there are ways to plan for the costs.

I don't understand why people accept the NHS needs more money, and say they are happy to pay more in a system similar to European models, but don't note that we could achieve the same result by increasing the amount of income tax we pay and allocating the extra money to the NHS. This would be much fairer because the amount you pay is based on the amount you are able to pay. Any system where you pay at the point of care will discriminate against people with chronic conditions and deter people from seeking medical help where they are at the lower margins of income just above whatever threshold exists to receive free healthcare.

A large part of healthcare is preventative care. Who pays for this? Eg stop smoking initiatives, breastfeeding support, weight loss support. These save healthcare systems millions but who is responsible for paying for them?

Oh and I have a chronic condition for which I receive the most effective drugs available in the world, which cost tens of thousands of pounds a year. I know many people with the same condition who live in the US with the same condition who can't get their insurers to fund even basic diagnostic tests or any medication, even drugs that are ineffective and out of date. I thank my lucky stars every day that I live in a country with a nationalised healthcare system, and I imagine most people with a chronic life-limiting health condition too.

It's important because the leaders of the Brexit campaign are on records as saying they want an American style healthcare system. That includes de Pfeffel and Fartage.

Worth bearing in mind when you tick your box...

Who says they do?

They think that they will personally be fine. They won't be the ones with a Gofundme begging for money so their spouse/child/baby isn't left to die or ending up on the street because the medical treatment cost more than their house was worth. They think their elderly mother will have found a way to make sure they don't get hold of the house inheritance and she won't get dementia.

They think that the back pain they had 20 years ago won't be used as an excuse not to cover treatment if they have a spinal injury from a car crash.

They think that they will be a winner and other people will be the losers.

I don’t want the US model but do believe the NHS needs to change. Nominal fees to see a doctor, higher prescription costs on expensive medicines, no prescriptions for anything that can be bought over the counter and certain things could be done on a cost basis so no funds used. Then spending could be better used and waiting times etc would go down.

The NHS is really truly awful and needs to be dismantled and a better system put in place. Obviously the American model isn’t a better system (replacing one kind of monopoly for another isn’t going to be an answer). There are other, better alternatives.

@SinittasDancers presumably because many people can’t afford to pay more income tax. It is also arguable that it’s fairer to have a means tested payment system so that those who can afford to pay for healthcare do, those who can’t don’t and those who don’t need healthcare aren’t forced to pay for something they aren’t using.

There is no point in people being sarcastic about immigrants; there is no country in europe or anywhere that offers free care to everyone, it is now a world health service not a national health service

The idea of an american style system terrifies me tbh. My dd has allergies, have you seen the cost of an epi pen?? We dont have a lot of money and would never be able to find 2k or whatever to go towards medical expenses. The nhs has it s problems believe me I know that but there are other systems that are a million times fairer than the US style system. Unless you want to get rid of the poor.

Velveteen, I disagree it should be tiered like that. We want people to self support but many don’t bother as benefits pay just as much as working etc so if they know healthcare is still free if they don’t work there’s even less incentive to do so. Much fairer for all to have the same charge.

Under an American system, DH and I would have been bankrupt twice over. Firstly with my medical Bill's due to premature birth and eclampsia with HELLP syndrome. Then with a DD with congenital heart disease requiring 3 surgeries before age 2. She will have ongoing medical intervention due to this with further surgeries in the future. I would hate to have to consider if we could afford life saving treatment for her.
The NHS has its issues, but to be free at the point of need, regardless of ability to pay, is a wonderful thing. Health and deprivation are inextricably linked. The poorer you are, on average the more healthcare you need. No one should be denied care or have to consider whether they should be putting food on the table or whether to go to the dr to get a lump checked (etc)

I used to live in a country with US style healthcare. I don’t know that anyone is particularly agitating for that in the U.K. (really quite the opposite) but I would say that the healthcare was generally excellent and way better than the NHS. My employer paid healthcare covered most of it too. But I could generally see my GP whenever I wanted and had the best specialists and best treatment I needed.

I think it’s easy to demonise the US system and there are many things wrong with it. But the NHS has quite serious issues too and I don’t think we should overlook them out of ideology.

@KipperTheFrog - are you sure that’s the case? My insurance pretty much covered those things you mentioned and you would have immediate access to the best treatment. Yes there can be co pays with some plans but mine were pretty minimal.

@zsazsajuju I cant be sure, obviously, as I dont know the exact cost. But an ICU stay for both me and my premature daughter wouldn't have been cheap. 3 open heart surgeries, including pacemaker insertion, a month long hospital stay, 3 PICU stays, 7 months of nasogastric tube feeding with high calorie cows milk free formula, plus all the follow up - ain't gonna be cheap. We are a relatively low income family so doubt we'd be able to afford great health insurance with a low/no co-pay.
The treatment we've had on the NHS has been great, especially as my DD is treated at one of the leading paediatric cardiology units in the UK.

@Graphista I have had acid reflux since the 90s. I was told my weight was causing it. I lost ten stone. Still had the acid reflux so still had to carry on taking Zantac which ive been on for 20 years. Until now because its been withdrawn, Back in 1998/99 i would have to get up in the night and eat something because this would push the acid back down again though obvs this didnt help my weight at the time. GP wouldnt listen and kept gaslighting me . Saw another GP who prescribed Zantac. Last year they stopped my prescription for it so i started buying it but now cant get it anywhere. I didnt go to my surgery and ask them why they stopped it with no warning because i couldnt face dealing with the shit show that is Virgin Care.

After 20 years on Zantac i now have four pills left.

I posted something about it on another thread and was told my gut biome could be out of whack and conversely it could be caused by my stomach not producing enough acid.

@kipperthefrog that’s great and pleased for your family. I had one of my dds in a private “US style” system and another on the NHS. Private care was way better.

Eg i got a whole load of tests (Harmony for example years before it was available on NHS, strep, etc) and a level of comfort and reassurance privately that was a million miles from my experience on the NHS. It’s generally normal in the US to have a dr at the birth and for ongoing care (not just a midwife) and a load of scans that you just won’t get in the NHS. That’s not to say you can’t get care on the NHS but generally it’s much better in the US if (and for many it’s a big if) you have good insurance.

I don’t have answers but it was scary using the NHS after an excellent private system. Such detailed care may only make a difference in a tiny minority of cases but if it’s your or your baby’s health, that makes all the difference in the world.

That’s not to say you can’t get care on the NHS but generally it’s much better in the US if (and for many it’s a big if) you have good insurance.
And therein lies the problem (in my opinion). You can only have good insurance if you can afford it. But then those that cant afford insurance, cant access the care. At least with the NHS, everyone has the same chance to access the care. Those that can afford it have the option to go private, but those that cant afford insurance aren't denied care. And don't have to worry about being able to afford the bills when they do access care.

Also I paid a copay for my GP But no copay or any additional funds for pregnancy or maternity or paediatric care. But again, it depends on your insurance I suppose (which is covered by employers).

@KipperTheFrog - totally agree but the NHS is not providing a lot of care we need and so we have to pay anyway. In my area it’s a nightmare to try to see a GP never mind a specialist. Also a lot of the best care in private systems is just not available on the NHS.

It’s a different attitude to healthcare but the US did open my eyes. I’m glad we have theNHS but it’s not perfect by a long shot.

Velveteenfruitbowl Istrongly disagree with your comment saying the nhs is awful.

The nhs have been there for my family a few times. And I am so grateful for everything they do.

Dh had private healthcare at work.. Was rushed into an NHS hospital. When he enquired about going private they advised against it.

Reason... The guy in the next bed had just been transferred from local private hospital because they couldn't diagnose the issue. The nhs have better diagnostic tools.

I know it's deeply flawed at higher level but at grass roots level it's a fantastic organisation.

Terrifying that people think it’s a good idea. Years ago I worked there and lived for a while with a wealthy family in LA. Years later the dad died and a daughter became very unwell. Now the mum lives in her car in some gated compound! Her money has all gone on medical bills. Makes me shudder