Is anyone here non-binary?

[wheresmymojo]

I know it's a sensitive topic and for that reason possibly people won't respond.

I'm trying to get my head around what non-binary means.

I understand the definition: 'neither man nor woman' but what does someone experience as being non-binary?

How do they know they are non-binary?

Would appreciate if this was kept to people who either are non-binary or are close to someone who is as otherwise it will just be a thread of people giving opinions which I can get on other threads.

So as not to dripfeed I'm wondering if it's actually another term for what some people would call genderfree or would say they don't believe in gender or if I have got the wrong end of the stick and feel like I need the view of NB people to help me try to understand if they are different.

I'm not sure at all to be honest. It does strike me as attention seeking.

With some of the female bodied people who identify this way I wonder if it's because they know they are too feminine in appearance to convince anyone that they are a man so it's a compromise

It doesn't mean anything and is a fad. That's why you can't understand it.

Would appreciate if this was kept to people who either are non-binary or are close to someone who is as otherwise it will just be a thread of people giving opinions which I can get on other threads

Apparently some posters just can't help themselves if it means they get to pile on to someone who's 'different'!

A good friend of mine is non binary and they way they described it to me was just not feeling either male or female. And that's not just 'well I don't like pretty dresses and I don't like trains so I must not be a gender', it's not identifying with either in any way, the thought or feeling of either set of genitals makes them deeply uncomfortable. They feel like they were born in the wrong body but neither of the options available 'fit'.

Personally I don't understand it because even though I'm not particularly 'feminine' I do still feel female, I just can't describe why I feel that. But just because I don't understand someone else's feelings doesn't mean I discount them and call them attention seeking! Plenty of people have feelings, emotions and experiences that I don't understand, doesn't mean they're not real

I am gender-free as gender is a construct.

it's not identifying with either in any way, the thought or feeling of either set of genitals makes them deeply uncomfortable. They feel like they were born in the wrong body but neither of the options available 'fit'.

I honestly read stuff like this and feel so exasperated. How much time must you have on your hands for this to even be a thing and to be constantly mulling this over? Absolutely fucking ridiculous!

Oh for crying out loud! Constantly mulling it over? Of course you would be constantly mulling it over if you didn't fit into the mold that society says you should fit into. And then to be told you're just attention seeking when you do look for support? Terribly sorry if people aren't using their time exactly how you feel they should be. Why don't you give us all a nice little timeline of what we should be doing, thinking and feeling at the correct times? How does is honestly affect you how someone feels about themselves and WHY is it such a big deal to use people's preferred pronouns? I prefer the shortened version of my name and when I tell people that they have no issues calling me by my preference. What is it that actually scares you so much about people being different?

Of course you would be constantly mulling it over if you didn't fit into the mold that society says you should fit into. And then to be told you're just attention seeking when you do look for support?

No I wouldn't. I really really wouldn't. Growing up I was too busy working to keep a roof over my head and food on the table, not to mention working for years in a support role for works forces overseas rebuilding infrastructure in war torn or areas hit by natural disaster. You know, people with actual problems.

Not to mention the fact that I have two disabled children who struggle to fit into the place assigned for them in society. So much so that one of them cannot even go to school or function socially without support. Yet somehow I am not demanding that whole swathes of society shift how they communicate or interact in order to accommodate them and my navel gazing around the difficulties we face as a family.

I truly believe that many of those engaging in this nonsense will cringe themselves inside out in years to come and leave skid marks trying to distance themselves from it and that time cannot come soon enough.

So as not to dripfeed I'm wondering if it's actually another term for what some people would call genderfree

Having a personality.

Genderfree is different from non binary. You can acknowledge being female and not want to conform to stereotypes of dress, make up, occupation etc. You can be genderfree and not a self obsessed little twit who mindfucks everything to a stupid degree.

You can be genderfree and not a self obsessed little twit who mindfucks everything to a stupid degree.

Perfectly put

I don't feel particularly female or Male.

if I had to choose, I would choose Male. I am not good /interested in at most stereotypical female things

However I refuse to describe myself as male or none binary because I feel uncomfortable with the whole concept of gender identity. To me, it's irrelevant. I wasn't raped because of my gender identity.

Growing up I was too busy working to keep a roof over my head and food on the table, not to mention working for years in a support role for works forces overseas rebuilding infrastructure in war torn or areas hit by natural disaster. Yo u know, people with actual problems.

And? Would you like a medal? Saying that someone is struggling doesn't take away from your struggles. They're just different struggles, different problems.

Not to mention the fact that I have two disabled children who struggle to fit into the place assigned for them in society. So much so that one of them cannot even go to school or function socially without support. Yet somehow I am not demanding that whole swathes of society shift how they communicate or interact in order to accommodate them and my navel gazing around the difficulties we face as a family.

Again, just because you don't see it a legitimate difficulty/condition/struggle doesn't mean that people breeze through life. My friend was bullied horrifically at school and was withdrawn by their parents because it got so bad. At that point (20 years ago) there was no support or even attempt at understanding. This does not take away from your struggles (again!) but I don't understand why it's so bloody hard to be kind? If I told you my name was Jane would you insist on calling me Helen because that's what's on my birth certificate and what my abusive parents called me? (Not a true story) I hope not because that would be cruel but I'm still asking you to 'shift how you communicate'. Trans and non binary people aren't asking for special treatment, just to be accepted as human and be called by a pronoun that fits who they feel they are. I still don't see why that's so hard?

I truly believe that many of those engaging in this nonsense will cringe themselves inside out in years to come and leave skid marks trying to distance themselves from it

And if that happens then well done you, you're smarter than the rest of us and you can give yourself a massive pat on the back. In the meantime why not just be kind? And if you don't agree with it don't be friends with anyone who is non binary but why feel the need to come on to a thread where someone specifically said they didn't want opinions but just experiences and start spouting off about how you feel it's nonsense? Just walk away

You can be genderfree and not a self obsessed little twit who mindfucks everything to a stupid degree.

Nice generalising there. My friend is not self obsessed, is not a little twit and doesn't mindfuck anything. They are one of the kindest and most selfless people I know. Thankfully, they are now happy with who they are. Yes, they prefer the they/them pronouns but if I slip up and use she/her they know it's not intended maliciously or because I refuse to accept how they feel and so nothing is said (I usually realise I few seconds later and cringe much like how I did when I called my teacher 'mum')

I'm sure there are some people who use the acceptance that people are FINALLY being granted to seek attention but there always will be no matter what the subject. How about we don't just tar everyone with the same brush??

I am gender-free as gender is a construct.

Ridiculous

I truly believe that many of those engaging in this nonsense will cringe themselves inside out in years to come and leave skid marks trying to distance themselves from it

Agreed

Well said @CarolDanvers

Lovemenorca, do you not think that gender is a construct? What is it then?

In the meantime why not just be kind?

You mean go along with ridiculous navel gazing? No. And I am tired of being told to be kind in discussions around this nonsense. Being kind has cost women too much.

Walk away? Again no. Walking away, keeping our heads down, being quiet, not challenging has led to the mess we are in now.

As for the rest of your post I agree with none of it. Hope that's clear enough and you will stop addressing lengthy, woke lectures at me but I doubt it.

@CarolDanvers I would honestly and genuinely like to know how/why it affects you? And if it doesn't affect you personally why not just move along. I see plenty of things daily that I disagree with massively but they don't affect me, it's not a big deal so I shrug my shoulder and carry on my day. This is a topic that I see affecting someone close to me and I don't understand then venom that is thrown at them from complete strangers.

To be clear I do firmly believe that biological sex is important. Men and women show symptoms of various medical conditions differently and so I believe it is the right thing to do to ask anyone what their biological sex is in some scenarios. If I think someone is male and I refer to them as 'he' and they say they'd rather be referred to as 'she' it's no skin off my nose. If I'm completely honest I'd probably do an involuntary look up and down to see if I'd missed anything but then I'd move on.

If I'm missing something please do tell me though. All I'm going on is mine and my friend's experience.

Oh, and the toilet thing. I'd love it if there were 3 public toilets everywhere, male, female and I don't know 'free for all'? But that's not going to happen because no one wants to pay for it. Floor to ceiling cubicles? Again, I'd be ok with that because I know the fear of abuse and assault is real and valid. I also know someone who was assaulted by someone of the same sex so that would still be an issue, someone assaulted in a very public place and someone who was raped in a female public toilet by a man who obviously didn't care about gender/sex signage. He pushed her in there and followed quickly.

I don't know the answer

@HopefulFor2020 I'm not reading your posts anymore. They're the same nonsense and they're also really long. I have been reading the same earnest lectures for about three years now and I no longer have any patience or willingness to engage with them. This is what happens when you beat people over the head with your beliefs and demand they accommodate them. People just stop giving a shit and that's where I am at.

What you are missing is how harmful gender as a construct is for the population as a whole. Assuming gender Exists encourages lazy stereotyping for example. It is used as a tool to put people down. An excuse to pay the, less or treat them as subhuman.

Th s is why feminists want to explain that they can be physically female, different in some ways to men clearly but their essence as a feminist is , their likes, personality, cognitive capability , in their understanding, no different to that of men

@CarolDanvers You obviously do give a shit because you're still posting.

I'll keep it short and sweet this time.

I really would like to know why you object so much?

If someone describes themselves as non-binary, it suggests there are other people who are binary, and that's what is nonsense/harmful to me.

If someone describes themselves as non-binary, it suggests there are other people who are binary, and that's what is nonsense/harmful to me.

I think in this instance binary is used to mean one or the other. So binary code being 1s and 0s, one or the other at anyone time. The majority of the population feel either male or female, on or the other. Non binary people don't, they are neither.

That's my understanding anyway. Happy to be told I've got that wrong