Is anyone here non-binary?

[wheresmymojo]

I know it's a sensitive topic and for that reason possibly people won't respond.

I'm trying to get my head around what non-binary means.

I understand the definition: 'neither man nor woman' but what does someone experience as being non-binary?

How do they know they are non-binary?

Would appreciate if this was kept to people who either are non-binary or are close to someone who is as otherwise it will just be a thread of people giving opinions which I can get on other threads.

So as not to dripfeed I'm wondering if it's actually another term for what some people would call genderfree or would say they don't believe in gender or if I have got the wrong end of the stick and feel like I need the view of NB people to help me try to understand if they are different.

oh my god, people have too much time.

I would like to read that summary if you get permission OP.

I don’t understand really but would like to. I think gender stereotyping is harmful for everyone, and I think a lot of non-binary people genuinely do identify that way, and are the victims of gender as well.

Sam Smith’s comments are problematic, but they don’t speak for all NB people I am sure. Travis Alablanza’s comments about the changing room upset me because it appears Travis believe changing rooms are there to validate identities, or to protect the users. Travis is gender fluid.

The fact they are NB now means that the Brit awards are gender neutral and that will adversely affect women. In fact generally, making things gender neutral just removes protections for women as a class and I do have an issue with that.

I have no issue with respecting pronouns and trying to be supportive of people who are struggling with their gender identity but I am surprised at the people on the thread querying if it affects women.

In fact generally, making things gender neutral just removes protections for women as a class

^ Yes - this x 1 million.

Trans and non binary people aren't asking for special treatment, just to be accepted as human and be called by a pronoun that fits who they feel they are. I still don't see why that's so hard?

That isn’t particularly hard, what is more difficult is not eroding women’s rights and protections by suggesting that men self identifying as women are women and should benefit from those rights and protections.

The pronoun you address someone by is a small part of a much bigger whole, by some people self identifying as a different gender, I become other-identified as being cis-gendered. I’ve never agreed to that. A man self identifying as a women and demanding access to women’s toilets, changing rooms and services reduces my comfort and safety in those spaces.

A man self identify as a woman and providing intimate services, be that waxing or undertaking smear test reduces my ability to make an informed choice about who I allow to see intimate parts of my body because I’m not allowed to ask about their biological sex, just their gender identity. As a survivor of significant sexual trauma would very much affect whether I chose to access those services.

A man identifying as a women working or performing in areas where women have traditionally been at a disadvantage - elite sports, STEM industries etc then benefit from the protections in place to level the playing field - a playing field in which they are already advantaged. If you really think it’s just about calling someone “she” and “being kind”, you’ve clearly not thought things through.

I'd get behind 'no need for sexed pronouns, call every they/them' fwiw. Or anything like that, applied to the whole population.

Thanks for the lesson about trying to be nicer, OP.
I've been learning that one since the day I was born.

I know someone non-binary. It’s more like being gender neutral as opposed to gender free. For example they are a they/them and would be put out if you called them she/her (biologically female).

"Y - "no, specifically I don't like my female body"
O - "neither do I, it's what I'm oppressed for"
Y - "no, its not that, it disgusts me"
O - "yes I know, I understand that - feminists believe it is because of the unrealistic expectations on women"
Y - "no, not like that, I'm different. I don't identify as a woman so it can't be that""

Well, there is a difference between being unhappy with one's own instance of a body part (but it is not the part as a concept that is the trouble), and the very part itself as a concept being the trouble.

Whishing a part of you looked differennt really is a different thing than prefering it to not be there at all.

And preferring it not to be there at all because it feels wrong or alien is different than disliking how in your society it affects the way you are treated (and so your objection is more "pragmatic").

at least the XY-NGBs are (presumably) allowed to feel the way they feel without it being decided on their behalf that what they really object to is the associated oppression or unrealistic expectations.

They can feel however they like, whatever chromosomes they have Japab, however when they start voicing stereotypes relating to women, then women will raise concerns. As any group would.

The way I see it is non-binary people and GC people seem to be coming at the same issue from
different angles. Society places unhelpful expectations on people due to gender stereotypes. One way to reject these stereotypes is at an individual level by saying I don't relate to being either masculine or feminine. Another way to reject them is saying we should change society's expectation of masculine and feminine because these are just unhelpful social constructs and people are different regardless of sex. The issue I see with doing this at an individual level is that we are accepting the stereotypes as inevitable or 'true' and not seeking to change/challenge them.

The issue I see with doing this at an individual level is that we are accepting the stereotypes as inevitable or 'true' and not seeking to change/challenge them.

Yes, the same can be said of the c word - everyone who's unhappy with their gender oppression seems to assume that everyone else who hasn't claimed a specific gender identity is happy with their 'gender', when IME that couldn't be further from the truth.

The way I see it going is that it's going to take more or less everyone 'coming out' as agender, non-binary, etc before the world cottons on to the fact that hardly anyone is ecstatically happy about their 'gender' and that no-one fits neatly into their supposed gender stereotypes.

It does get my goat when people say 'you see, I experience my gender like this' (great - good to know) and then go on to explain how that's different from how other people experience it - how on Earth could they know how other people experience gender?

The issue I see with doing this at an individual level is that we are accepting the stereotypes as inevitable or 'true' and not seeking to change/challenge them.

This is spot on and sums up my feelings on the matter. Ironically being gender neutral is not being "neutral" towards those who don't define themselves as such as it relies on thinking that other people do accept those stereotypes - and by other people I mean largely women. It is fundamentally selfish as a concept.

so I'm non-binary I have autism and a lot of autistic people experience gender dysphoria (feeling uncomfortable in the gender they were assigned at birth based on their genitals) a lot more than non-autisitc people, autistic people generally do not feel the need for gender as much from what I have gathered from talking to my support group who is nonbinary based

for me I see non-binary as feeling in between because I do I'm very andrognus quite masculine (short hair, baggy clothes) i was born as a girl but I guess never felt the need for my gender it felt unnescary and made me very uncomfortable and isolated to the point of my mental health seriously going down hill in particular I felt uncomfortable being called a girl and was uncomfortable with feeling like a girl, but at the same time I didn't want to be a boy I didn't want a boys anatomy yet I couldn't live as a girl I found the term non-binary most people see me as andorgnus so while i prefer gender natural pronouns they/them i understand that can make people uncomfortable or its not realistic to accept people to understand so while i prefer gender netural pronouns i dont get angry if people call me he/him as I'm quite masculine.

i knew i was nonbinary because i watched a show with a nonbinary lead character due to my autism I'm very detailed orientated so i did a lot of research and about the link between nonbinary and autism, after talking to my parents as i was 14 at the time i talked to my support team and my therapist as well as having an appointment with a gender therapist just to assess my situation after this support i felt more confident in my identity and finally more at peace with my body i hope this helped sorry if there are spelling mistake i have a learning disability