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I know this is a tactless thing to post but what would happen politically if the Queen died tonight?..

169 replies

BertrandRussell · 26/09/2019 20:41

She is 93- the possibility’s there...

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Tensixtysix · 27/09/2019 09:11

She'll go on until 105. Charles will most likely croak before her...

LaMarschallin · 27/09/2019 09:20

I don’t think there’s any modern precedent for a Queen/King consort being ‘crowned’ at all.

The queen mother was crowned (a special crown was made for her, iirc).
I'm guessing that the rule was that female consorts were crowned as they are actually queen (the q.m. was queen Elizabeth, but with no regnal number) but male consorts don't become king.

Presumably "king" was seen as a more special kind of title than "queen".

I don't know if that's changed since the law was altered to allow the first-born to become monarch regardless of sex.

GaudyNight · 27/09/2019 09:25

I think that’s right, @LaMarschallin. The thinking is that ‘king’ trumps ‘queen’ in the hierarchy, so it’s ok to have a queen consort ‘king consort’ sounds a bit too much like actual power, rather than an essentially decorative role.

I mean, the entirety of The Crown to date has been about tiresome Philip throwing his weight (and genitals) around in private because he’s not king, and while I appreciate this is fiction, I can’t imagine two series of high-end heritage TV being about a queen consort moan8ng about not tanking equally with her husband.

LaMarschallin · 27/09/2019 09:36

I mean, the entirety of The Crown to date has been about tiresome Philip throwing his weight (and genitals) around in private because he’s not king

I haven't seen The Crown, sadly.

Certainly, there seems reasonable documentation irl about prince Henrik of Denmark being quite frustrated at not having a clearly defined role.
And I think you're right - it seems unlikely that a queen consort would feel she had no role - she's there to support her husband .

The whole royalty thing is not only anachronistic, imo, but deeply sexist too.
I doubt the institution will last long enough for the change in the law from "first born son (if there is one)" to "first born child" succeeding will make any difference to the sexism.

lyralalala · 27/09/2019 09:39

It’ll be interesting to see what happens with Camilla. Even if she isn’t crowned she’ll still be Queen without letters patent giving her another title. The moment Charles becomes King she becomes Queen. As George IV found out - you cant stop your wife being Queen, even if you bar her from the coronation!

She’ll either be Queen consort or Princess consort I think. King consort would suggest a male rather than female. Even a dowager Queen who is mother of the King is HM Queen X the Queen mother, rather than HM Queen X the King Mother.

BertrandRussell · 27/09/2019 09:44

Yes- it would be brilliant for Johnson. He’s automatically get his delay. And it would give him a bit of breathing space in which he could look a bit statesmanlike after his recent performance.

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GaudyNight · 27/09/2019 09:55

@LaMarschallin, I hope you’re right about it being on its last legs. I’m not convinced, alas, but am hoping the bizarre attachment people have to the current queen will turn into a backlash against hereditary monarchy when she dies — but as long as there are humdrum lives, there will be a perceived need for the circus, and people waving little flags from their sleeping bags on the Mall.

Ironically, given that I rather enjoyed it, I think The Crown (which makes the queen immensely sympathetic by dint of a stinking performance from Claire Foy) has massively stoked up pro-monarchy feeling, which is pretty bad.

FrauHaribo · 27/09/2019 09:56

They all have mourning clothes with them at all times , in case of an unexpected death in the family.

not just the family, anything could happen in the country they are in, they have a set of appropriate items for anything.

anything could happen - Charles could be in an accident whilst the Queen is still Queen, or William and his children, Kate could run away with Boris tomorrow.. Every options is already planned, at least the most reasonable ones Grin

GaudyNight · 27/09/2019 09:57

And agreed the queen’s death would be a total boon for Boris Johnson. She needs to keep one eye on her teacup at her PM audiences.

RuffleCrow · 27/09/2019 09:59

Politically?! Since the reign of Charles II the answer has been "fuck all".

We have a symbolic consitutional monarchy, not a political one.

lyralalala · 27/09/2019 10:07

not just the family, anything could happen in the country they are in, they have a set of appropriate items for anything.

The Queen was very embarrassed by not having a black dress when her father died. I can imagine she’s so particular about it now it’s the first thing that gets packed for all of them when they go anywhere!

BertrandRussell · 27/09/2019 10:07

Do they suspend parliament when the sovereign dies?

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lyralalala · 27/09/2019 10:13

Parliament gets recalled if the monarch dies so that the PM can say their bit and so that MPs can swear allegiance to the new monarch.

I imagine there wouldn’t be too much going on in parliament in the 9/10 days until the funeral - they’d certainly have to watch the tone of it I think or people could get seriously offended

BertrandRussell · 27/09/2019 10:14

“ they’d certainly have to watch the tone of it I think or people could get seriously offended”

Quite looking forward to it!

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Brahumbug · 27/09/2019 10:52

Kingship is the only thing to travel faster than light. The very millisecond the queen dies Charles will be king. So, no, no immediate constitutional consequences at all.

Sounds like quantum entanglement! Grin

GaudyNight · 27/09/2019 10:56

they’d certainly have to watch the tone of it I think or people could get seriously offended

Given that a serving PM described the heartfelt plea of a number of female MPs referencing the horrific murder of one of their peers for a moderation of current rhetoric in the HoC, rhetoric which is actually being repeated in death threats against them, as 'humbug', I think that horse has not only bolted, but is probably eating its oats on another continent by now.

GabsAlot · 27/09/2019 11:10

As far as i know prince phillip is not a king of any sort

lyralalala · 27/09/2019 11:43

@GabsAlot he’s not. He’s ‘just’ a prince

LaMarschallin · 27/09/2019 12:02

@GaudyNight

I hope you’re right about it being on its last legs. I’m not convinced, alas, but am hoping the bizarre attachment people have to the current queen will turn into a backlash against hereditary monarchy when she dies — but as long as there are humdrum lives, there will be a perceived need for the circus, and people waving little flags from their sleeping bags on the Mall.

There is that, of course.
I suppose I was judging by how my own feelings have changed towards the monarchy over time.

Early teens when Charles and Diana married - totally bought into the "fairy tale" thing.
Later, didn't think much of either Charles or Diana (and stopped buying into the latter's "perfect mother" image after she used William's affectionate gestures towards her in that television interview; he was bound to get totally mocked at school).

Later still, didn't think much of the younger royals; at least, I felt, the queen's put the hours in, kept quiet under provocation, not complained etc

But things have changed a lot during her reign. Eg her sister would have had to give up any claim to the throne had she married a divorced man; her son is now a divorced man himself and still heir to the throne.

The current political position reveals she has no actual power or isn't prepared to use it.

Maybe they do inject some glamour into the country, but I think it's not just me who's become more aware of the base metal under the gold plate.

ReanimatedSGB · 27/09/2019 15:52

I'm not sure Fucko the Clown is capable of looking 'statesmanlike'. So if Liz Windsor does pop off in the next week or so, he's likely to make a total arse of himself and lose what public goodwill the bigots and scammers have generated for him. The likes of Banks, Bannon and Cummings might think they could spin it as doing Brexit by way of a tribute to the ex-monarch, but none of them have the right sort of propaganda chops to pull it off (because none of them give a toss about her, TBH). The only one who might be able to pull some genuine advantage from her going is Rees Mogg, who might be able to peddle enough Stiff-Upper-Lip Dignity-and-Tradition guff to put him ahead of Fucko in the 'likability'' race.

Chimchar · 28/09/2019 09:40

Thanks for the link to the guardian article...it was really interesting! 👑

BalloonSlayer · 28/09/2019 10:04

Yes they definitely all have mourning clothes. When there was that skiing accident and a member of their party was killed, Diana and Fergie came home in the black dresses. And I think Diana's father died when they were skiing and again she came back in a black dress.

Although they could have easily have got mourning clothes flown out I suppose.

ForalltheSaints · 28/09/2019 11:33

There would be a period of mourning and a funeral. I expect many places would close on the day of the funeral.

The worst thing would be having Mr Johnson as Prime Minister attending the funeral with his mistress. Parliament would have a day to pay tributes no doubt.

SuzieBishop · 28/09/2019 12:12

Do not want that day to happen. I bloody love The Queen and will be devastated when she dies. My sister & I have always said we’ll go to her funeral- obviously not in the church but line up on the street.

FrauHaribo · 28/09/2019 14:06

I bloody love The Queen and will be devastated when she dies.
I respect that, but I really cannot understand it.

Unless you know her, how can you possibly love her? She hasn't reigned for a very long time, but apart from that, she hasn't achieved anything whatsoever. She is not a scientist, she is not an artist even, if Elizabeth hadn't became Queen, our life and the country would be exactly the same. Might have a different way to elect our Prime Minister, but that's about it. She is just a symbol, but a flag is just as strong.