I wish I'd had girls

[belleandbete]

I know I will get some terrible flaming for this and I probably deserve it, but I'm trying to be honest about my feelings and get past this. I have seen many threads on here recently on gender disappointment/ how great boys are and wanted to add my honest perspective.

I have three DS's, ages 8, 5 and 1. They are all much loved and I am a very involved parent- show an interest in all their activities/ spend one on one time and family time/ play with them/ read with them/ listen to them/ set boundaries/ give consequences/ follow through/ am consistent etc etc They get enough food and sleep and everything else.

But still, life is frequently incredibly tough with them. They are so so so physical and boisterous. They are constantly play fighting/ wrestling/ using anything they can find as a weapon. I find their physicality absolutely exhausting and also, if I'm honest, incredibly offputting. Someone is always always getting hurt. I find most of their interests and activities tedious (I hate sports- they love it. I hate battles and violence and star wars and spaceships and weapons etc etc etc.) . I find the way they play incredibly stressful. They have little to no interest in things like people/ relationships/ friendships etc which were and are my major interests in life. They are often violent/ physical with each other, no matter how clear the consequences. Most of my life is spent telling them to stop/ sit down/ watch out/ get off your brother etc etc. I try to get them interested in things like art/ music/ dance/ reading etc and they take a passing interest but it never really sticks. And contrary to the popular belief that boys are emotionally simple and not complex, this just doens't seem to be true at all in our case. THey have huge tantrums/ meltdowns/ upsets/ anxiety all the time. The eldest is in therapy for anxiety.

I see friends with girls and their lives seem so calm and easy in comparison. Yes there are issues of course, but their interests seem so familiar and fun to me. The energy levels seem so much calmer. the mums seem to have genuine fun and shared interests with their daughters. The girls . seem so much better at resolving conflicts and are almost never violent etc etc. No matter how much I love my boys, and I really really do, I feel life would have been so much easier and nicer if i had had girls (or at least one girl)

I never let them know any of this by the way and go out of my way to make them feel incredibly loved. Is it just me? Anyone have similar or contradictory experiences to share with no judgement?

So you are saying that you prefer the social model within which girls are brought up in because it conforms to your personality as well. I don’t think the 1:1 time or consequences is key, as is insisting that they socialise in a particular manner. Do they get opportunities for craft and colouring and have they from a very young age? (I don’t mean craft kits lying around- I mean do you sit down and do it with them again and again). Same with puzzles. I enforce quiet time every day with both boys and have since they were kids. It allows breathing space. They can do what they want indoors but quietly. Ever since they were toddlers we have had weekly board games, family reading time, lots of music time, art and craft. So while one of my children is naturally loud and I suppose more ‘boyish’ he’s been socialised in a way that means he’s able to sit quietly and do these activities. Both of mine from age 4 or so have done yoga (for my older one it’s essential for his posture and my younger one saw it as an extension of many hours of physio therapy). Along side these because DH and I are v sporty we play a lot of sport with them. Very active sports and we get dirty and sweaty with them. After school/work/homework/music today we all played tennis in a public court nearby. It was a good family bonding experience. It didn’t stop DS1 and 2 from fighting all the way home and DS2 from whinging through bath. But DH and I could deal with it better (although I did have to shout ‘oh stop it you two!’) because of the shared time. You hate sport so if your daughter was sporty, how would you have dealt with that? Creating a calmer household isn’t going to happen overnight but also you’ll have to find a way to get your boys to share what you want to do. At the moment you see them (and their gender) as standing in opposition to your personality and interests. But they weren’t born with interests, their interests are what we introduce them to. And maybe you can introduce them to what you like to be able to find that shared time.

Yeah, sex has nothing to do with the exhausting, boisterous nature.

As a child I caused my mothers heart to stop on many an occasion.

Including:

Dangling my legs out of a 2nd floor window

Escaping out of the garden to play with my friends

Escaping out the garden by the side of the garage and going for walks around the area

Getting concussion from a space hopper

Breaking her crystal glass wedding present by using said space hopper inappropriately

Playing hide and seek and not popping out when she couldn't find me

Constant trips to A&E for various injuries (staff knew me by name)

Low attention span - mentioned by teachers

Constantly needed to be active- running around, climbing

Wouldnt sleep til 10pm where I would joyfully bounce on my bed

Would wake up at 5am to start the new day afresh... ready to exhaust her.

Definitely not a Male or female attribute. Just genes I'm afraid OP.

@potulbabu we do lots of sit down activities- eg puzzles, crafts etc and always have done. They can and do sit still and do these things . That's not really the issue- it's more of a default setting for them that as soon as I stop trying to regulate them/ do this stuff with them/ turn my back they head straight back to boisterous fighting and roughhousing. When left alone to play (I can't entertain them all the time) they play in a VERY different way than i did when I was a child and very differently from how I see their female peers playing and interacting (I volunteer at the school and watch how they all play a lot) . Almost almost all their self generated play is rough and wild, as is the play of all their friends who are boys. The people vs things thing is also a big deal to me. They have little to no interest in discussing people or relationships/ what anyone else is thinking or doing and virtually all the girls in their class are interested in these things (I talk to the other mums a lot and watch how the girls play/ interact.) I think this is, to a large extent, socialised behavior, and I love it and would love to have a child who was interested in this stuff. So yes, girl socialisation appeals to me way more than boy socialisation.

Yes my boys also fight/kick a ball around. I don’t think a lot of kids have a great deal of interest in discussing people and relationships. Certainly not at the age your kids are. What DO your kids want to talk about? You have to find a way to listen to them than get them to talk about things you want to, and maybe things will open up that way. My older son has zero insight into friendships and relationships but he’s an incredibly sensitive boy in other ways. So we talk about politics and race (I’m a University professor in the humanities) and the refugee crisis and Brexit. And we let the conversation meander from that. The other day we were discussing whether drugs should be legalised in sport and it evolved into a discussion of fairness. Our conversation about politics have also always spiralled off into more personal chats. I had a long chat with him once about why I didn’t change my surname. It sounds to me like you want to almost, pardon me for using this word, ‘gossip’ about their friendship world and they don’t. I mean I would personally find the kind of conversation you would want to have incredibly dull to discuss people and relationships (especially at their age). I know you say you have watched a lot of mother daughter interaction but of the many many many mothers of girls I know very very very few have this dynamic. And I am not convinced it’s very healthy- it’s almost like you want to talk to them like a mate. I genuinely can’t imagine wanting to talk about people and feelings and relationships with my mother under the age of 10. (I may have confided in her but my sons have both confided in me about stuff but will equally grunt when I ask them about their day).

@potulbabu as to how would i cope if i had a daughter that was into sports- I would obviously 'cope' with it fine and support her in what she does, as I do with my boys. But I do think it's different. In my boys' social world, sport isn't just something you do, it is the key to all socialising and communicating and the main topic of conversation. I have never seen groups of girls communicate like that, even those who play a lot of sports, sport is never the main topic/ the way into all other forms of socialising in the same way it is for boys (and many men)

I'm sick of seeing the pathetic stereotype that girls are nasty, bitchy and high maintenance. I have 3 and they are wonderful, empathetic and kind. They all have different interests, art, role playing with their dolls, roller skating and basketball ball.

@potulabu how old are your boys?

Almost the same age as your older two (slightly younger), their birthdays are in Jan. I don’t have a third child.

OP there are a lot of mums on MN who are in denial of biology and social constructs. It is a fact that on average boys and men are more aggressive and physically violent than girls and women. So I don't believe your experience is solely a result of your DS's personalities. A huge part of it is because they are boys.

Having said that, I think you need to find a middle ground with regards to their interests. You say you don't like sports - not a single one? What about things like athletics, swimming, or tennis that don't involve much physical contact with other children? You say they hate reading but if they like Star Wars and space there should be books on those subjects that they are willing to read?

Also your youngest is 1, doubt he is involved in the aggression and fighting much yet, clearly he's not into sports or Star Wars yet either. He may have a completely different personality. Don't project what his older DBs are like onto him.

@edgeofheaven I take them swimming a lot, and play all kinds of sports with them (and watch them play). they do read- both of them are actually good readers for their ages. I read to them and the oldest reads to himself every night before bed. But neither of them choose reading when given a free choice of activity. I both try to take an interest in their interests and try to get them interested in mine, but it doesn't feel like a natural process at all- more that I am forcing myself to do things that I dont' naturally enjoy very much for their sakes, or I am forcing them to be doing things when they would rather be doing something else. When I spend time with girls of their same ages, I relate much more to the way that they talk and play, the topics that interest them and the way they relate to other people.

I love my boys dearly- that's not the issue. I agree with you - I think because this topic is so loaded politically and socially, it is hard for people on both 'sides' of this to be totally honest about it.

@belleandbete if it helps I have two DDs and while they keep it together in public, at home they fight constantly. Physically fight that is.

@potulbabu it's not exactly that I want to sit with them and discuss/ gossip about people and relationships in the way you describe. More that for them, these topics are genuinely of zero interest and this is a very very different way of being in the world than I am used to. Almost all of the little girls that I know of their ages (especially the older one) are genuinely interested in people and friendship dynamics etc and will play and talk in a way that reflects this- eg play house/ family/ school etc very spontaneously. They also like to talk more in general, whereas my boys are much more into action.
As for what they like to talk about- my older son will sometimes get into the kinds of conversations you describe- eg things in the news etc and I do enjoy talking to him about this stuff= my younger one isn't really interested in/ capable of this type of more abstract thought yet. If left to their own devices, they mainly enjoy telling me a lot of facts about whatever their current obsession is- space/ star wars/ pokemon etc and I try to feign an interest. And yes i think this is a 'boy' thing, even if not exclusively. Gender is culture, and culture is one of the most important facets of human existence.

I see friends with girls and their lives seem so calm and easy in comparison.

In a physical sense, yes but in all other ways no. Once they hit school the drama begins, then it really ramps up around Yr4. They graduate primary as fully fledged drama llama’s and the teenage years are the pits. Add in boyfriend drama, unsuitable relationships when older. Overall even though boys were physically more full on in the early years, overall to adulthood I found them much much easier. Definitely more simple creatures in the teenage years.

My 7 yo DN has spent every morning this week beating the tar out of her much younger male cousins. She’s also really into sports and often uses it to bully them. To be honest she’s really exhausting

IME your vision of girls sitting around chatting is girls sitting around bitching and ripping each other to pieces, hence why I spent all my time running with the boys. Sooo much more fun!

What misogynistic nonsense. Girls and women are perfecting capable of getting together and discussing all manner of things without "bitching".

I have one of each and when they were little both of them had their moments. I don't think you can judge behavior by what sex they are. My daughter would sulk for hours and my son would throw stuff about when he didn't get his own way. They are now adults and have turned out alright and I am very proud of them.

They graduate primary as fully fledged drama llama’s and the teenage years are the pits

Not in my experience.
My DD (yr10)and her friends are passionate about sport, studying, travelling, theatre. Maybe they've just had really good female role models who don't feel the need to denigrate other women.

What misogynistic nonsense. Girls and women are perfecting capable of getting together and discussing all manner of things without "bitching".

Capable, yes. If you were to ask a range of primary and high school teachers what their experiences are you may be shocked though, especially given yours are perfect in this regard.

Overall even though boys were physically more full on in the early years, overall to adulthood I found them much much easier. Definitely more simple creatures in the teenage years.

I find it incredible how often people say this when it's well evidenced that young men are known to engage in risky behaviours around drugs, alcohol, thrillseeking activities, violence etc. at far higher rates than young women are.

When my brother was a teenager I was appalled at the content of mostly male video game chat rooms - misogynistic racist violent messages going back and forth. If you heard about Gamergate you know this has been an ongoing problem for years.

I hate that teenage girls expressing their emotions is labeled as "difficult" and "drama" meanwhile the genuinely toxic shit that a lot of teenage boys participate in is "simple" because mum and dad can close their eyes and pretend it's not happening more easily.

You really think girls are any better?! Yeah, I get the whole boisterous, rough and tumble aspect but girls are actually a lot harder to parent because they are harder to discipline, argue a lot more and have a massive attitude when they don't want to do something which can last ALL DAY!

I hate that teenage girls expressing their emotions is labeled as "difficult" and "drama" meanwhile the genuinely toxic shit that a lot of teenage boys participate in is "simple" because mum and dad can close their eyes and pretend it's not happening more easily

Like the pp who mentioned girls and “boyfriend drama” and “unsuitable relationships”.

If all boys are simple easy creatures who are these girls going out with that causes all the drama? What makes these nice simple creatures unsuitable for their bitchy hormonal daughters?

If society stopped with the gender stereotyping shit and constantly reinforcing it -like on this thread -we’d have more chance of our kids not engaging with said stereotypes and being pigeonholed.

I was labelled a moody sulky argumentative teenage girl. People saw the stereotype, and didn’t even think I was actually a deeply troubled individual after a traumatic event that could have done with counselling. No, it was just my hormones and me being a typical sulky girl.

If you were to ask a range of primary and high school teachers what their experiences are you may be shocked though

I'm a former primary school teacher with friends who teach secondary so I think I've got a pretty realistic view.

especially given yours are perfect in this regard

Why do you feel the need to be snarky? Where did I describe my DD and her female friends as "perfect"?

It's mumsnet shorthand. "If you're so perfect" means "Don't waste your time reading my post"...

I haven't read the whole thread (lazy) so sorry if I'm repeating things, but the truth is that no kid or group of kids are how you expect anyway.

These mythical three girls of yours, sitting in a row on the sofa chatting and making pom-poms - no. They don't exist. I love my 2 girls but they are complex, puzzling, non-conforming human beings, just like your boys are.

And mine are currently obsessed with playing 'forts' which is pretty violent and annoying too.

My eldest DS isn't like this (youngest is a baby) but at the moment we suspect he is on the spectrum. For that very reason I do wish I'd had girls, given the reduced likelihood of ASD. I worry my youngest will have it too, and that'll be it. Two children with ASD and no hope at a "normal" life.

Girls certainly would've been less complicated from that perspective.