Husband thinks I'm being negative, but I think I'm being realistic

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My husband and I are both mid 30s and have been together since our early twenties. We’ve never been desperate for kids – they’ve just always been a potential in the distant future. But now the future is here and I feel like if we’re going to have them we do really need to make a decision on it in the next year or so.

So in the last few years I have put a lot of thought into whether it’s the life I actually want (and have read mumsnet a lot!). My feelings on it are very complicated. I adore my niece and nephew, and I would love a family around me like my parents have now in their 60s, but I’ve never been broody and a life with small children just doesn’t look appealing.

Everything about motherhood absolutely terrifies me, from pregnancy and birth, breastfeeding, spending days on end at home with a small baby/toddler, the effect on my career and marriage, baby groups, the cost etc. I am prone to depression, I’m fairly introverted and really need my own space and I don’t love lots of physical contact and hugging etc so I really worry that I would absolutely hate a lot of aspects of motherhood. I think my gut instinct is that it’s perhaps not the life for me, but this does make me sad and I worry that I’ll regret it.
My husband and I have chatted about it a bit more lately, and he seems to have gone the other way and is leaning more towards having them now. He isn’t pressurising me at all, but my issues are that:

• He counteracts all my concerns and says that I’m being negative and thinking too much about the practicalities. I don’t agree with this. I don’t think I’m being negative, but realistic. And thinking about the practicalities of how we would manage with both working full time, childcare, cost, my history of depression etc, is sensible and we shouldn’t just dive in and hope for the best.

• I really don’t think he fully grasps how hard parenthood will be. He thinks that our overwhelming feelings of love for our hypothetical children will override all the sleep deprivation, stress, potential effect on our marriage. I think he uses looking after our niece and nephew occasionally as a reference point and thinks full time parenting will just be an extension of that. I’m fully aware that being an aunty or uncle is not comparable at all to being a full time parent, but he just refuses to acknowledge that a lot of it is likely to be exhausting, stressful and not rainbows and sunshine.

I guess what I’m trying to work out is, am I being negative, or realistic? And is my husband being naive about the realities of parenthood?

I think you're being realistic. My 2 were both terrible sleepers for years. It's broken me, I'm not the person I was, my body is not what it was and I don't have a career any more.
BUT I would never be without them now.
Many many mums will say that but of course you are in the position of not having them in the first place. I would take longer to decide and then maybe just have one which is less impactful on finances/work/your marriage.
Or just don't do it! If I'd known about Trump/Brexit/climate change etc ten years ago then I might have decided to never have children.
And having a niece/nephew is no comparison to having your own, you are quite right.
It is fine not to have kids or to not want them or to simply recognise that it mightnt be the best thing for you personally.

it's great you're thinking it through properly. however I think you have a skewed idea on parenting from being on mumsnet. people rarely come on to discuss the daily joys of parent hood. of which there are many. but like anything worth while it can be hard work at times.
could you ask your dh to discuss each of your concerns with you and how to minimise/resolve them rather than just dismissing you.for example your need for a some alone time should be easy enough to make arrangements depending on what's appropriate/achievable at any particular time.

Read your update: you would be doing most of the day to day mental and physical work alone. I wouldn't do it.

He thinks that our overwhelming feelings of love for our hypothetical children will override all the sleep deprivation, stress, potential effect on our marriage.

He’s right. They do.

Every single day I look at my children (it took us years to have them due to fertility issues) and think how lucky I am, how much I love them and how happy they make me. Nothing else really matters. I was a career woman but don’t really care about that anymore, I’m part time and work flexibly now. They’ve never affected my marriage, made it stronger if anything - it changed from a marriage to a family and it’s wonderful.

I do understand it’s not for everyone though and you’re sensible to give it a lot of thought. But please try to look at the positives as well as the negatives.

I think all your points are extremely valid. I was very very similar to you. My DH would have had kids 10 years earlier than we did as (in my opinion) he had this rose tinted view of what it would be like. I’m very much a realist and knew exactly that it would be all you’ve said - woman’s life changes much more, effect on career etc. I also wanted to travel as much as possible, get married, buy a house and few other things that I wanted to do without having to worry about kids in tow or having finances restricted. I also felt I would have resented the baby/situation if I had ever gotten pregnant unexpectedly so I made sure that never happened.

So, few years down the line and it kinda got to the time to decide. I was still very much aware of what I was letting myself in for, but ultimately it came down to my gut of whether I wanted to be consciously child free or not. I knew under it all I did want to have kids and, while a lot of my predictions were right, overall I feel it’s worth it over the bad stuff. I like to think that I did a lot of living beforehand and so now as my movements are restricted I actually don’t really mind as I dont want to be out on the town anymore etc as much. I’m happy enough to be at home and my career is still there albeit on pause a bit.

Your fears are all extremely valid and I agree men are usually unable to see what the reality will be but in my experience it wasn’t as bad as I thought and I didn’t mind the ‘bad’ stuff when it came.

Best of luck with your decision, whatever you decide have faith in your reasons.

I think to a certain extent your are being realistic . Having a child does affect a marriage, careers, & life in general, but it's not always for the worst. Your priorities will change, things that used to be important to you, will not feel important anymore. I was very much like you & my pregnancy was not planned. However I would not be who I am now without having my son. It is incredibly hard & you do have to work together to keep your relationship stable, but like many people will say, it is the best thing that will ever happen to you, no matter how much it can be a struggle. My son is only 9 months old & I struggle everyday with something. But I've found going back to work has given me that independence again & I feel more like myself. Childcare is expensive & a factor you need to think about, but for me it was worth being tight & living off less for a few years, to go back to work & have my time but then enjoy my time more with my son. Everyone does what it best for them, you would figure out what that is for you.
I always said I didn't want children, however knowing what I know now I can't believe I ever felt that way. & that's with us having a very hard baby, colicky, doesn't sleep well, I still wouldn't take it back.

Feel the fear and do it anyway.

It's just impossible to know how you'll feel having never experienced it isn't it, and then if you do decide to take the plunge and don't enjoy it, it's too late! I'm very risk averse so this also terrifies me.

My husband would be a great dad, I'm sure of that. And I doubt that he'd shirk his responsibilities. But as others have said, the majority of it would have to come down to me. As he's freelance and the higher earner, he wouldn't be able to drop everything and pick up a sick toddler from nursery, or work part time, as he'd lose clients and we'd struggle for money. He does actually agree with me on this part.

Your later posts do help to understand why you're the one feeling so much doubt and uncertainty and your DH is more happy-go-lucky about it all. He can afford to be! Be careful OP. Don't do this just because you'd feel guilty otherwise.

You just answered my question.

I think you are being negative although I also admire the realism. It's hard for me to say because all I ever remember wanting to be was a mummy and kidding myself the career was mega when I hadn't met the right man by my late 20s.

DH and I both wanted DC and I had the first at 34 and a lot of miscarriages. Had DD at 38 after real struggles. DH for a period was adamant we had been blessed with one and should stop. For me that was a deal breaker.

If you say no now, having gone along since your early 20s, is this a deal breaker for your DH? Can you face it being a deal breaker? Has the relationship now perhaps run its course with you both wanting different things?

I have loved motherhood.
My adult dd says she doesn't want children - I was surprised but after getting used to it I feel a lot of relief as I think her life will be easier. My feelings have surprised me.

I never thought about the practicalities of having a child beforehand. Had I done so, I doubt I would have had one! As it happened she was an accident anyway and I wouldn’t give her back now. I also certainly wouldn’t have another.

But

Nursery fees. The hit to my pension. The loss of freedom. Her father turned abusive shortly after she was born so I became a single parent. I do ALL the thinking and organising.

Career wise I didn’t take a hit actually, I stayed in the same job with various flexible working in place and had the same opportunities I would have done had I not had a child.

It sounds like your husband has already stated his intention not to change his life too much and to leave you with the bulk of the crappy parts of parenting ie the thinking, organisation and logistics of juggling a job with pickups etc. Believe me, the “mental load” of being primary parent is far more exhausting than the physical - even things like he may change a nappy but you’ll have to remind him where they’re kept first. Freelance or not, there is always a way to fairly share the load, it comes down to willing in my opinion.

There are so many posts on here from the partners/wives of crappy men who abdicate the responsibility of childcare and the home to the women entirely, and many of those women knew full well that their partner was like that but expected it all to change once a baby arrived. And they always start off with “he’s a wonderful dad and a fantastic husband but...”.

Realistic.
I had easy pregnancies and births and a fairly easy dc1. But I struggled with the loss of freedom and loss of me. It's put a big strain on our marriage over the past 10 years. I don't know if I'd make the same choice again. I was also v negative about having kids before I had them, so the reality was never quite as bad as I expected.

But. After a couple of wobbly years early on, my career hasn't been affected. My social life has increased since having kids. My body is now better than it was when I first got pregnant 10 years ago. So on balance, I think I'd rather have had them.

Ok then get dp to pay for his inability to parent- private hospital c section, bottle feed, nanny, boarding from 8.

Whatever you do don’t stop working full time or he’ll see you as a second class citizen.

Hmm. My DH was a crap and unavailable parent from about 0 to 10. Absolutely fine as I wanted to do it and he was a brilliant provider, kind, loyal, moral. But I worked as hard as him running th dc and home. Recall a year when they were 9 and 1e when he spent more time abroad than at home!

This was us in reverse before I nagged a very reluctant DP into having kids. He had the same reservations as you (and I shared your DH's shallow understanding of depressive illness), and although he adores our children I know, we did it twice depression happens irrespective of whether there is love in your life, so the argument that the 'overwhelming love' will somehow save you from recurring depressive illness just won't float. DP has suffered a few longer episodes of depression, and a big uptick in general anxiety (massively made worse by the dire outlook for children and young people in the light of the breakdown of the climate), since the arrival of DC, and for him, in addition to the crippling guilt of not being able to 'step up' at those times (our whole set-up has depended on 50-50 childcare and earning), and the effect that having a parent struggling with depression inevitably has on DC, no matter how well managed, he has felt like he let us all down badly by going ahead despite knowing how he felt. He has actually been continuously well for the last 4 years; a great parent, but we're always aware it could come back. Not because of having had children, but because he is prone. Knowing what I know now, and despite having been together for nearly a decade before DC, through his previous bouts of depression, I do feel guilty that I foisted parenthood on DP (and an occasionally depressed parent onto our DC), despite also appreciating that, now they're here, he wouldn't have it any other way. I think you need to listen to that quiet voice within and look after your future self in all this.

You can't help how you feel. Having children is a huge decision. However most of us manage OK :-). Being a parent is very rewarding.

If you do decide to have a baby, make sure you have some reliable help and can go back to work, then you'll have the best of both worlds and find you enjoy it.

But my love for them doesn't make all the hard work worth it. It just makes me willing to do it. My love overcomes my desire to do less.

This hits the nail on the head. The children need to be fed, bathed, taken out whether I can be bothered in that moment or not. It can't wait.

And everyone saying just have one. You could have twins like I did.

I think you are both right - you might find that the joys of parenthood outweigh the downsides, or you might not. It's pretty much impossible to predict how you will feel - just read all the threads on here of people saying they never wanted children, but are delighted to have them now, but just as many people saying they were desperate to have kids but it hasn't lived up to expectations and they wouldn't have them if they could go back in time. So it's always a gamble. You have to decide which risk you would rather live with - of having them, then regretting, or of not having and regretting.

You are being realistic! Nice to see someone putting so much thought into having dc...

dc will change your life much more than your husband’s. Even if your h is hands-on.

Interesting that he wants dc yet doesn’t seem to be at all willing to change his life to look after his dc, do nursery runs, etc. Being freelance should mean he has more flexibility to change working hours!

I’d talk to him about how he thinks having dc would work out. How would he parent? What role would he play day to day? Who would take time off? Would you then go back to work?

You are being realistic. You should have children because you absolutely love spending time with small people. If you don't really WANT to, as a positive, proactive choice then I think you shouldn't bother. Plenty of people live far from their kids these days, so having a family around you when you're older isn't a given. Kids do give a lot but the grind is real and modern life can be really punishing when you're trying to balance everything.

It's good you're flagging up your mental health and introversion now. It also depends on practicalities like whether you live in an affordable place, how flexible yours or your DHs careers are. If you live in a cheap place, in a job that doesn't punish you for taking time out or part time, and you have active helpful family nearby this all helps massively.

I think you need to listen to that quiet voice within and look after your future self in all this

That is very wise advice.

You mention having children. Don’t forget you don’t have to have more than one, it may be that a single child makes you very happy and fulfilled and is as many as you want.

You don’t have to be an earth mother to be a great parent and fulfilled. I’m not. I love my DC dearly but I didn’t like baby stage. But I loved having teenagers. There never felt like a right time for me two I threw caution to the wind and we took the plunge. Don’t regret it for a second ever.

With the extra info you've given about his job, I can see why you have the concerns you do OP. I was like you, in that my career was the lower paid and more dispensable one with no travel. DH is our main earner and he travelled a lot for work in the early years of relationship. There was no question that he'd be able to 'drop everything' or even that he would want to. When our first DC was four days old he had to go on a 2-day business trip to another country. You say that if you were the man in the relationship then you'd be a lot keener on having kids too. Bravo for looking at this so intelligently and dispassionately - more of us should probably do that before making so momentous a decision. I didn't. I just knew I wanted kids and so we chucked away the contraception and voila! One month later I was pregnant and that was that.

It's been hard and it's fallen to me, but I've never had MH problems and both our DC are healthy. If I'd had depression or one (or both) of our DC had been born with disabilities I hate to think how things would've turned out, because my DH simply wasn't there to support me - I had to get on with it. Also, for everyone who 'loves being a mother', I'm willing to bet that there is another woman who loves her DC but actually doesn't 'love being a mother', because motherhood is roughly 95% drudgery and 5% joy IME. You spend most of your time cleaning, washing, clearing up, cooking, wiping, chivvying, ferrying, dressing, changing, shopping, reasoning, persuading and gritting your teeth - very little of your time as a mother is blowing bubbles, laughing, building sand castles, decorating a Christmas tree and playing peek-a-boo. Your level of self knowledge is a valuable pre-child commodity. Listen to it.

I have been thinking along the lines of MuthaFrunka61. One of my best friends does not like babies/toddlers/little people. She is not maternal and did not want babies - but her husband did. They had an arrangement which has worked out beautifully for her, her husband and their two children.. She said she would give birth (as not an option for him to do so) but he would take over from there on. Do the whole baby, small children nurturing thing.... until they were big children. The oldest has just finished university and the second is at the end of his schooling and they are a happy family. She, like you, needs personal space and has is prone to depression. She is intelligent and kind but she is not a 'nurturer' in the old fashioned hugging sense of the word. She just doesn't do little people, hers or anybody elses, and that is ok to say out loud although women are often criticised for it, men less so. As older (secondary school onwards) children she has had a great relationship with them. Discussions on plastic in the oceans, what you need to do to earn your pocket money, what GCSE subjects to take etc.

Would your husband consider 'owning' the younger years? And would that work for you? I just wondered if it would because you would like what your parents have in their 60's.......older children. I think some of us are better at the baby bit, some of us are better at the teenage bit. Nobody has the monopoly on the whole long haul.