Kids bedtimes, no adult down time

[OhDearWhyAmIFatterly]

I'm hoping parents with older kids can help me with this....
We have 3 children 6, 10 and 13. Obviously it's the summer holidays so bedtimes have slid a bit but I'm struggling as we are just not getting any down time with no kids in the evening!!!
I know we have kids and that's part and parcel but I need some time!
I'm dreading back to school and all the battles.
We get up early for the school childcare drop off, and are out of the house bu 7.15. Home by 6.
I just need a period of uninterrupted TV time in the evening after super stressful day at work....
Is it reasonable to say to older kids they have to be in their rooms by a certain time even if not asleep??
Even if we try to send them up to watch TV or read the constantly come back down for drinks or whatever so I can't watch anything!!
Are we destined to only watch family friendly TV and then go to bed for the next 5 years???
I miss 7pm bedtimes!!!!
Please tell me your routines.....

It's their home too. Trying to confine your kids to their rooms because you want time away from them to relax seems a bit harsh. I think expecting to have tons of time to yourself in the evening with three kids is just not very realistic.

My kids are older now, and I miss them wanting to spend time with us in the evening!

Ps mine dick around a bit with the teeth brushing. But I just shout or send DH up to speak in his stern voice If they’re getting too silly and hysterical. I do let them have a bit of a giggle though, they’re not the Von Trapps!

Like I say their actual getting ready at bedtime upstairs is very short because they are bathed or showered earlier in the evening after dinner. Then PJs downstairs with us to watch telly usually. Upstairs about 15-20 mins before lights out. If 15 year old wants to read for a bit he can, he then puts his own light off after I’ve kissed him goodnight and shut his door. 13 year old is Usually knackered and just snuggles down to sleep so doesn’t tend to read.

Could you try the showering earlier on, keeping it separate from the expected getting into bed time you’ve set? If they know you will all be watching a programme together (or separate in the other room) after the showering is finished they might be much quicker in the shower. Showers right before bed would be a nightmare in our house and energise them (and leaves the bathroom too full of condensation). They would definitely dick around.

But if after their shower they know you will be “right, one episode of X/Y/Z and then bed” they know what is expected .

Dicking around = I need a wee, a drink, it's too hot, it's too cold, I can't stop sniffing, my fan is not working, I forgot to clean my teeth..... The list is endless!!!!
Curly thank you I think I will try your suggestions. I think a quick kiss before lights off is the way to go.

Cohle, if you had read the whole thread you will see I like my kids, but I also like having 1 hour to watch something or have a bath by myself before I have to go to bed myself.
At no point have I said I want my kids all asleep by 6, but it was 10.30 tonight and I'm bloody knackered!

I have the same issue and need advice. mine are only 4 and 5, either have Adhd or boundless energy.

I dont get how you enforce lights off and staying in bed, mostly i give up after turning the light off and carrying a child to bed for the 10th tjme - too exhausted and i fall asleep myself. They used to be bathed, tucked in with story, asleep by 8pm but now just play and play and play.

Oh and I think YouTube is like crack for kids so there is a cut off for that 8.30 latest. So our evening goes:

Dinner
They can YouTube for a bit/watch own stuff/last minute homework till 8.30. They have a bath/shower during this time. (Not necessarily every night but this is the time they’d have it)
8.30 pack school bags for next day then sit and watch telly with us or something non YouTube of their own in other room (they usually choose to stay with us so we tend to then find a compromise on something we all like)
9.45 ish (later if not at school next day): upstairs to brush teeth, wee, wash face if not showered.
Lights out at 10 (I always go in and do this for them unless DS1 wants to read in which case i’ll Just say goodnight and shut his door)

I have read the whole thread and I'm sure you do like your children. I just think that with three kids of those ages expecting an hour to yourself every night is not terribly realistic.
I have three kids myself...

It's your kids home too and expecting them to stay out of your way doesn't come across as terribly warm. That doesn't mean you can't enforce a structured bedtime and bedtime routine, but I think that needs to be for the kids' benefit rather than your own.

Hmmmm.... re the hour to yourself. I think you may need to adjust your expectations. I know an hour to yourself every night after kids are in bed is an essential when they are little but I not sure ir’s Possible when they’re older to expect this EVERY night unless You are fine with going to bed late.

If you have to do work from home eg a teacher then you will have to somehow make that time for your marking, but it doesn’t leave much for “me time”.

I think it’s just the way it is. But if you really NEED it maybe a compromise or a couple of nights a week DH and sit and watch something with them while you have an hour telly/bath/reading on your own. You can still pop in to wish them goodnight at the usual time, it’s only a couple of mins. They will get to know that it’s mum’s day to watch X so they know that you will be popping in to kiss them and put their light out but that you want peace to watch your programme until that time.

If you’re a single parent you will NEED to have that hour 2 nights a week, I’d say. Make it a routine and they will get used to it.

hat doesn't mean you can't enforce a structured bedtime and bedtime routine, but I think that needs to be for the kids' benefit rather than your own.”

I agree, Cohle. I have horrible memories of being wide awake on summer nights in bed at 7.30 and hearing my friends still playing out in the street. My sister and I shared a room and as we weren’t tired we used to end up chatting and giggling. Sometimes my mum or dad came up to shout at us for this and on occasion even smack us ! This was the 70s and they are horrified they did this now and certainly don’t treat their grandchildren like that when they stay over.

I just think they had got stuck in this routine from when we were toddlers of having their evening to themselves and expected it to carry on! As if! We played out for hours after school anyway so it’s not like we were in their hair. They preferred to eat on their own on weekdays so we got given quick food earlier on 5pm ish and then they are as a couple at 6.30. I just think they were a bit old fashioned For a while, plus we were fussy with food as teens maybe. I have always insisted on family meal times in the evening, though, as soon as we were able to do it.

After about the age of 13 t when my parents finally realised we weren’t babies anymore we were allowed to stay up later obviously. We watched Dynasty and Bergerac etc with them . We had our own rooms by then. Lights out was at 10, my mum would pop her head round the door to say goodnight and then I would Listen to the Peaceful Hour on my clock radio! Sleep function so it went off on its own. Sometimes I read something like Arthur C Clarke’s World of Strange Powers, become terrified there was a poltergeist at the slightest noise then shout to my dad in their bedroom that I could “hear something”! So I dicked about too!

My parents are lovely people and we are close but they were a bit old fashioned I suppose. Not exactly “seen and not heard” when it came to children but we definitely had to fit in around them

I'm not surprised they're rebelling to be honest - routine is fine for small children but with older kids you need flexibility.

The you can't treat a 13yo the same way you treat a 10yo - being up in their room by 8pm and having enforced reading time - that's how you treat a child at primary school, not one who's two years into secondary.

Why can't they sit downstairs nicely and watch TV with you? I would say to them they have a choice - they can either go upto bed and read/draw/play/sleep or they can sit quietly downstairs and watch whatever you're watching. There are plenty of family friendly shows that are suitable for 13yo's - from Attenborough to Fawlty Towers to Blackadder.

I wouldn't be forcing a 13yo to read everyday I'm afraid - all you're going to do is create a battle and they're going to push back at you and not want to read at all. Fine for primary children who are still learning but at secondary it should be a choice.

I think you need to face the inevitable too, they are growing up and can't be expected to stay out of your way completely in the evenings forever. Thinking about this a bit more, when mine were a bit younger (now 15 and 13) I tended to have an hour of relaxation earlier in the evening say about 8-9 while they were still around then gear up for half an hour of chivvying them with showers, teeth etc from about 9.30, get a few jobs done upstairs in the same slot (such as putting clean laundry away) then back downstairs for a while after they'd gone to bed. I rarely go up with them now (we never really got into the tucking in habit), they just take themselves off like adults.

It’s absolutely fine to carve out some wind down time for yourself OP. All these parents who say they are happy to have their kids around them 24/7 fine crack on with it, but I would go insane if I didn’t get a bit time to myself each day!
The rule in our house is in your bedroom by 9pm and no screens in the bedroom. Luckily my 3 have always been readers. But whatever they want to do in their room (apart from screens) is ok but lights are out at 10pm.
So many people think that once a child hits 13 they should be treated as one of the adults in the house - but they aren’t! They still need parenting (in fact they often need it even more at that age). They still need us to make decisions for them that they might not like.
It is not mean or bad parenting to need a bit of child free time in the evening.

Missy, thank you, I'm glad I have someone who understands.

I think there's a difference between wanting adult time, and treating a 13yo like a primary aged child to get that time.

I was often sent to my room at 13/14 so my parents could have time to themselves. But my parents didn't insist that I read a book for thirty minutes each day, or go to sleep at a certain time.

We have similar ages 13,11 and 8.
Term time 8yo goes up at 8pm, lights out at 9pm.
11yo 8.30pm and 13yo at 9pm. They read in their rooms for a bit. I don’t tell the 13yo when to go to sleep, but I do remind the 11yo at 9.30.

We have a no electronics upstairs rule.
I limit computer/phone use in the evening too, to an hour 15.

Generally by the time i’ve cooked/washed up for DH it’s 9pm. So my down time is 9-10.15 and then I go to bed!

So many people think that once a child hits 13 they should be treated as one of the adults in the house - but they aren’t! They still need parenting (in fact they often need it even more at that age). They still need us to make decisions for them that they might not like.

I don't think anyone is saying that they don't parent their children just because they don't make them stay in their rooms in the evening. Making them do this isn't 'parenting' them for their benefit, it's for the parents benefit. I felt unwelcome in my own home as a child being sent to my room early, my parents just couldn't be bothered and I was very aware of that.

Well I consider not allowing a 13 year old to sit in front of the tv (or any other screens) until whatever time they finally fall asleep in front of it to be part of my parenting duties 🤷‍♀️ 13 year olds might not recognise that they need to wind down in a quiet room with no screens before going to sleep. That’s where the parent steps in.
Monchat has it ever occurred to you that parents aren’t ignoring their children by sending them upstairs at a certain time in the evening, they might be thinking of the whole families best interests. Did you expect your parents to let you stay up all night if you fancied it? There has to be a cut off point at some time surely?

Missy, I think we are on the same wavelength completely and I will try to find a way that makes the children feel like they are not being pushed out but at the same time ensuring they have quality down time and a decent night's sleep!

Underneaththeash I am going to aim for your routine as it sounds exactly what I need!!

Reading with interest as we have similar problem (11, 10, 8). I'm trying to get through to the kids that parenting is on emergency duty only after 9pm, given its the only time I choose what's on TV - DP chooses over lunchtime as he likes car/house refurb programmes that the kids tolerate. It's not like I'm watching horror but kids find Farscape/Red Dwarf /Dr Who too scary even to catch sight of when coming downstairs to us. All the kids age 7 had a phase of just wanting to be with us for an hour or so in the evening, we'd watch some benign documentary (Michael Portillo was our best friend), and then child would take their leave after a while. Now it's a mix of bad habits and anxiety and jet lag (their tablets are set to turn off by 9pm normally, 8 on school nights, but it's been later recently to avoid child-having-meltdown-in-crowded-hotel-room). It's going to be difficult and school will probably help after the shock of the first week, but I don't think it's unreasonable to tell a 10-year-old that they can refill their own water bottle at bedtime, ditto get cutlery and a glass of drink for meals, hang up their own coat, get their own cereal, and all those other things they would prefer to be waited on for during the day.

Sorry, I haven't RTFT but here's my bedtime routine if it helps.

DC are 9, 11 and 13. I take DC3 up to bed at 7.30/8 and read him a story. When I'm halfway through I shout to DC2 to come upstairs and start getting ready, then go and give her a kiss when I've finished with DC3. DC1 stays downstairs with me and DH until 9.30, then we send him upstairs. So we have about an hour to watch TV without him around (can be more or less depending on how tired we are!).

All three can read in bed but no screens.

Well I consider not allowing a 13 year old to sit in front of the tv (or any other screens) until whatever time they finally fall asleep in front of it to be part of my parenting duties 13 year olds might not recognise that they need to wind down in a quiet room with no screens before going to sleep. That’s where the parent steps in.

My children also do not fall asleep in front of screens. They like their iPads and computers but they have always been made to have regular breaks and come off them an hour or so before bed, they are now 15 and 10 and no longer need to be told this stuff as it's just what they've always done.

has it ever occurred to you that parents aren’t ignoring their children by sending them upstairs at a certain time in the evening, they might be thinking of the whole families best interests. Did you expect your parents to let you stay up all night if you fancied it? There has to be a cut off point at some time surely?

I think it's in a families best interests to spend quality time together. After school, work, homework, screen time, exercise, showers etc my children are relaxed and want to chat to us in the evening. Our home is their home and whilst they are awake they are welcome to use any room in the house that they want to. I can not imagine saying that they can stay up but not come downstairs. We've somehow managed to 'parent' without making a 'them and us' environment and that's what we wanted.

As for my parents, they would tell me to stay in my room from maybe 8pm when I was 14....i find that completely wrong. All it meant was that they didn't know me, what was happening in my life with school or friends as they didn't want me around. I will never make my children feel like that.

Well I consider not allowing a 13 year old to sit in front of the tv (or any other screens) until whatever time they finally fall asleep in front of it to be part of my parenting duties

There's a huge difference between allowing your children unrestricted access to screens and allowing them to sit up until 9pm to watch an appropriate programme with their parents!

Nobody here has advocated allowing children to just stay up all night, but what's wrong with a 13yo staying up until 9pm and watching TV with their parents? There's plenty of appropriate shows to watch - especially with the popularity of Netflix/Prime/NowTV.

My parents used to generally let me stay up until 9/10pm depending on what was on, then I had to go upto my room. I didn't have a TV or computer so I generally read, coloured, listened to music or did puzzles, but they certainly didn't police my time at all. One of them would pop their head round the door to say goodnight when they went to sleep but I was only told to go to bed if was being noisy or had an early start the next day for some reason.

That's the same practise I'm going to follow with my own children - a mixture of family time and independence/time alone. Of course if they want to go up to their rooms earlier, that's fine too, but I won't force them upstairs early for no real reason. Surely the advantage of having older children is you can go out and leave them home alone?!

My 8 year old is still at cubs at 8pm one night and just getting in from swimming at 7pm and still to eat dinner another day. I couldn't imagine sending him to bed that early. He wouldn't sleep. I actually seem to need more sleep than him at the moment. So when he's 13 who knows?

adaline OP wants her 13 year old in their room by 9

MonChat, we have the same ideas about how we want family life to be I think. I fully expect as a result of how we do things that when our children are grown up they will still be keen to share holidays with us or socialise together. We did. My parents were bemused by their friends who were aghast that we still wanted to go with them on our annual French family holiday at 18. They would reply that they enjoyed our company and we seemed to enjoy theirs just as much so everyone was quite happy! Their friends seemed to have children who couldn’t wait to get away from their parents and go off and holiday separately from them.

I’ve often wondered whether they just weren’t keen on socialising much together at home either, while all still living under the same roof.

My mum also couldn’t understand her friends who refused to do any childcare for the babies of their adult children. Not even have them to stay overnight. Their attitude was “I’ve raised my children, thanks, now do the same with yours”.

I think some people are just maybe more family orientated than others and enjoy the buzz of family life more (from say, age 13 upwards I mean, when they are more independent) . I am very much an introvert so not bothered about things like “going out with the girls” but I am very much at home in the bosom of my family. . I’m not saying one way is better than the other, we are all different and some people wouldnt think much of my boring life which revolves around work and family socialising but it works for us.

OP, do what works for you. But be aware that your kids just MAY feel in years to come that they didn’t quite feel like they could come and seek your company in the evening if every night you want them to leave you uninterrupted for an hour.

Mine are only 7 but I'm not going to let that stop me wading in

Mine dick about if they're not tired. When are they getting up? I think it's very hard to get them in bed early if they're not tired yet - doesn't work for me - but it's easy (if painful) to wake them earlier in the morning. It's not long till the schools go back in, can you start getting them up a bit earlier now in preparation?