Does Grammar School not exist to some people?

[tippytoesah]

Surely it must do?

I've never really discussed schooling before with DH as DC is still so young. But I did recently and mentioned that if he showed promise or wanting to take the 11+, we would support him in any way possible.

He looked at me as if I had two heads and said "What's an 11+? "

He really didn't know it was a thing and had never heard of it. I was shocked and mentioned it to SIL and her friend who also have 0 idea what it is!

I'm not from around here and I grew up in Essex. It was quite a big thing in that county, or at least the area I was in. You either went to a non Christian school which was absolutely terrible, went to a Christian school who were actually half decent or you did the 11+ if you were really bright. It was encouraged and supported.

Does it not even exist in some places then? I will look further into it but DH and close relatives/friends seem to be as clueless as him... maybe it isn't a thing in that part of the county

@Starlight39 - don't you have selection at those great comps via the property market? Those who can buy close to good schools - those who can't, can't.

We have grammar schools in our county, but as our primary school has nothing to do with the application process, children sitting the 11+ are tutored within an inch of their lives privately for at least 2 years.

Passing the 11+ without tutoring ranges from highly unlikely to impossible.

There are a lot of children in DDs class who are fortunate to have parents who can afford to pay 2+ years of tutoring fees - which is a total industry in our town. I cannot afford tutoring.

Sadly the majority of children who are tutored look down their noses at their classmates who are not.

I hate the whole thing - the children earmarked for the local comp are made to feel that they aren't good enough, friendship groups are broken up and the general 'my kid is better than your kid' attitude from parents is shocking.

The positive thing about the lack of grammar schools across the country is that the playing field will hopefully even out at college/universe level.

I can't wait for my DD to start at the comp so she is away from the toxic atmosphere the 11+ has created in her primary school.

11+ still exists, my child took it last year.

It’s an archaic system that has long since been superceeded by comprehensive schools it most parts of England.

My daughter took it (11+) with no tutoring as my my mindset was if she can’t get in easily she will struggle massively.

The town I grew up in used to have grammar schools but with selection at 14 rather than 11.

So at 11 everyone went to their local comp or the the RC comps. At what is now year 9 some children would be told they could go to one of the 2 grammar schools (one for boys one for girls) which were then 4th and 5th year and VI form.

The exception was the RC schools, they had both been secondary moderns, with the grammars in a different town, but the other town had gone totally comp so the RC schools by default became comps.

They had previously had a grammar stream because you would have children clever enough for grammar but with families who couldn't afford the travel.

My next door neighbour and my cousin both went to the local comp, at 14 NDN went to grammar. I went to RC comp 11 - 16. I got roughly the same results as DN.

This was late 70s early 80s sothe split was generally if you were taking mostly O Levels you went to the grammar, if you were taking mostly CSE you stayed at the comp.

Are you sure? There are also very few surviving middle schools. But there are a few scattered around. I have friends and relatives who have been through the first, middle, high school system.

I grew up and now live in fully comprehensive school area. I have worked in an area with secondary modern (though that isn’t in the school name) and very selective state grammar.

I wish that was the way it was labelled “secondary modern area” as that is what most children in state sector there experience. Some are still very good schools, but children who sit and “fail” really feel it. Although many parents don’t put pressure on (some do) children at 10/11 see that facilities are better and compare themselves to friends. (Facilities better because alumni are often successful and donate).

This map shows just how much of the country doesn’t have grammar schools. I’m in my 30’s and not only was there no 11+ for me, neither of my parents sat the 11+ either. Our area was already comprehensive when they went to school. I know what the 11+ is but I’m a teacher and I also now live and work in an area where there are a few super-selective schools around. I don’t know if one of my sisters would know what it was. She doesn’t work in education, doesn’t have children and even if she did, doesn’t live in an area where they have the 11+.

Bert there are still some middle schools: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_middle_schools_in_England

Including in the area the OP mentions.

None in Derbyshire where I live. Nearest ones are in Lincolnshire. Even if there were any in my county I wouldn't want my DS going to one.

Just looked up my own old middle school. The area only discontinued them in 2011.

Surely it must do?
No most of England doesn't have grammar schools any more.
Am old enough to have gone to a grammar but it went independent in the late 1970s to avoid being closed down.
Much better standard of education and pupil support at my dds comprehensive school than in my former grammar school.

I’m still endlessly fascinated by the concept of choosing which school your child goes to and the angst of not getting your first choice. I’ve never seen anything cause so much misery, that I just cannot relate to. To add another layer of stress with exams and tutoring and selection, actually boggles my mind.

I grew up in a grammar school area (Bucks) but there are a few schools local to where I live now that are called grammar schools, but they aren’t-its just a historic name and they are now fee paying and selective.

I admit I hadn’t realised that until recently as I thought Bucks was normal.

I moved from London to Kent more than 20 years ago and was amazed to discover that there were still grammars here. In London most were gone by the 70s

@TheClitterati yes, I'm sure there is an element of selection via the property market in general throughout the country and I'm not sure how that could be solved.

For me personally, all 3 closest comps are pretty well thought of. The nearest is particularly excellent and does have a wide catchment including one area with plenty of lower cost housing so the comp is accessed by kids with parents with a wide variety of incomes. I'm in a rural area which probably makes a difference though.

The 11 plus and grammar schools no longer exist. The 11 plus was taken to determine if you were going to do CSEs or O levels. Everyone takes GCSEs now

Grammar schools cream off bright kids, disadvantaging others. They remain in Tory areas but most areas have comprehensive schools with streaming. A bright child will do well if you read to them and take an interest. There may be a choice of schools in your area, some of them will be ok. No need for private school

A bright child will do well if you read to them and take an interest.

Not if they're in a toxic comp, they won't.

I was a straight A* pupil at primary school, but failed all my CGEs. Despite parental interest/encouragement, my comp was a hell hole for me and I spent most of the time hiding to avoid daily constant bullying (not just names, there was physical assault, theft, etc). I complained to my parents and the teachers. My mother was a teacher herself!
Teachers lied to my parents and said it was minor and I was making a big deal out of it (despite cigarette burns to my arms!). Teachers wouldn't move me to different classes, they wouldn't even change the seating plan so I didn't have to sit next to one of the worst who just happened to have a surname next to mine in the alphabet.

So, no, bright children won't do well anywhere at all! My crap state comp absolutely ruined my education and caused all kinds of lifelong social problems (inc attempted suicide!).

There are still 4 grammar schools in the London Borough of Redbridge:

I attended the girls grammar school in Woodford.

LONDON REDBRIDGE GRAMMAR SCHOOLS
London grammar schools with an 11 Plus entry are split into seven distinct areas. One of these is Redbridge.

There are two in Redbridge:
Ilford County High School
Woodford County High School

I had wrongly assumed there were still many grammar schools all over England and Wales. I was wrong.

There are about 8 grammar schools in Essex.

There are 4 in Hertfordshire.

I know little about comprehensive schools as I did not attend one. My view of school life is slanted due to my personal experience.

Agree with everything ittooshallpass says about the way 11+ is viewed in primary schools. Kids tutored to pass and competitive parenting at it's worst.

The 11 plus and grammar schools no longer exist. The 11 plus was taken to determine if you were going to do CSEs or O levels. Everyone takes GCSEs now
Have you read the thread? 163 grammar schools. Entry by 11 plus, whatever it might be called.

Beds doesn't have grammars. Bucks does. Think South Herts possibly can feed into Barnet/Enfield?

Bedford's Harper Trust schools had some fairly needs blind admissions through bursaries when I was at school- not sure if they still have the funds though!

None here since 1983.