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Original poster

Does Grammar School not exist to some people?

669 replies

tippytoesah · 02/08/2019 08:37

Surely it must do?

I've never really discussed schooling before with DH as DC is still so young. But I did recently and mentioned that if he showed promise or wanting to take the 11+, we would support him in any way possible.

He looked at me as if I had two heads and said "What's an 11+? Confused"

He really didn't know it was a thing and had never heard of it. I was shocked and mentioned it to SIL and her friend who also have 0 idea what it is!

I'm not from around here and I grew up in Essex. It was quite a big thing in that county, or at least the area I was in. You either went to a non Christian school which was absolutely terrible, went to a Christian school who were actually half decent or you did the 11+ if you were really bright. It was encouraged and supported.

Does it not even exist in some places then? I will look further into it but DH and close relatives/friends seem to be as clueless as him... maybe it isn't a thing in that part of the county

OP posts:
TapasForTwo · 05/08/2019 13:34

Crazy to hear that people don't have grammar schools!

No it isn't. It really isn't Hmm
In non grammar local authorities we have excellent comprehensive schools where the highest achievers are stretched, do well at GCSE and A level and even go to Oxbridge. Well fancy that!

Crazy to think that someone can't understand that Hmm

I think you need to understand that where there are no grammar schools children of all abilities will go to a comprehensive. These schools aren't just full of low achievers with no motivation. They also have very bright students.

Weathergirl1 · 05/08/2019 13:42

@sashh Grammar schools existed well before WW2. The alternative was elementary schools, which were replaced by secondary moderns post Rab Butler's 1944 Education Act (my grandfather and his brother both went to state grammars in Sheffield in the 1930s - a working class family that produced a teacher and a metallurgist).

The amount of misinformation on this thread 🙄

BertrandRussell · 05/08/2019 13:53

“These schools aren't just full of low achievers with no motivation. They also have very bright students”

It’s also important to remember that low and middle attainers are motivated and want to do well. It shouldn’t be all about the high attainers.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

General education Secondary education
TeenTimesTwo · 05/08/2019 14:02

Bert
It’s also important to remember that low and middle attainers are motivated and want to do well. It shouldn’t be all about the high attainers.

I agree. As a parent of a well behaved, hard working, low attainer, I find it depressing/insulting/upsetting when it gets implied that the sky will fall in if some bright child has to be educated in the same school as mine, or even worse in the same class for something, even if 'only' Tech.

TeenTimesTwo · 05/08/2019 14:03

... as it is, bright children seem to manage just fine in our comp. Smile

BertrandRussell · 05/08/2019 14:10

Yep. Bright well supported children do well anywhere. But there are people who want the whole education system skewed in their favour.

HappyMondayKidz · 05/08/2019 14:11

@TapasForTwo I didn't mean that people weren't intelligent.. I meant it as in I've grown up around them and thought they were the norm. I didn't realise that they weren't.. I know incredibly clever people that went to comprehensive schools that were known for not being very good and they have gone on to be doctors..

I'm not sure why everyone takes things to heart Hmm

AlpenCrazy · 05/08/2019 15:30

I'm not sure why everyone takes things to heart

Look at virtually every single thread on MN

People view everything through the lens of their own children

So if pp is upset if it's intimated comps aren't as good as grammars and they live in a non grammar area and their super bright DC attend a leafy comp

etc

CallingDrJones · 05/08/2019 15:38

I also didn't realise there isn't many around the country. I'm also Essex based and around us there's Southend & Westcliff Schools as well as KEGS & Chelmsford County High and then Colchester Boys and Girls grammars. Maybe Essex has a high concentration?

Hoghgyni · 05/08/2019 16:43

Cornwall, Somerset, Hampshire, East Sussex, West Sussex and Isle of Wight all have none. There are a couple in Salisbury in Wiltshire, Bournemouth & Poole in Dorset and around 6 or 7 in Devon.

SecretNutellaFix · 05/08/2019 17:01

Nope. Wales has had a comprehensive system for decades. Last Grammar School in Wales closed in 1988.

TapasForTwo · 05/08/2019 17:59

It’s also important to remember that low and middle attainers are motivated and want to do well. It shouldn’t be all about the high attainers

Absolutely. And I agree with TeenTimesTwo as well.

sansou · 05/08/2019 18:41

This is what happens when people want choice in education. In RL, it's selection by postcode/religion/wealth. Everyone wants the "best" education which is available for their DC - unfortunately, all schools are not perceived to be equal and it's not a surprise that parents tend to flock to the schools which produce the best academic results.

So 5% of state secondaries are grammar schools who no doubt dominate state entries to the top universities.

DD went to the local comprehensive and ended up with AAA at A level. The school had 45% of students achieving A or A at A level last year. This is in an area where there are no grammar schools.*

This clearly isn't your average state comprehensive! My catchment state comprehensive has less than a handful of students achieving AAA in a non grammar area and I don't exactly live in a poverty stricken area, just a semi rural one.

Kazzyhoward · 05/08/2019 19:16

Yep. Bright well supported children do well anywhere.

How many people need to tell you their experiences proving that statement is false before you stop spouting it as fact.

TapasForTwo · 05/08/2019 19:22

sansou this is in a semi rural area as well. The school does have a much lower than average number of FSM pupils.

ooooohbetty · 05/08/2019 19:27

None round these parts. Unfortunately. And I say that as someone who failed the 11+.

TheBigFatMermaid · 05/08/2019 19:47

None in my rather large sprawling county.

I suppose the same could be said about Home Education though, not many people realise it is perfectly legal to do so.

I home educated DD for the last two years. She is now going to another thing that not many people know exist, a 14-16 unit within a college.

I suppose it just depends on what your experience of life is. This, home educating, is mine.

ShrodingersRat · 05/08/2019 21:23

“Yep. Bright well supported children do well anywhere.”

“How many people need to tell you their experiences proving that statement is false before you stop spouting it as fact.”

Very very many do so in good comprehensives though. With the added advantage that many of those who are not well enough supported to be put through Grammar entrance at 11 also get the chance to do well.

In a comprehensive that offered triple science, further maths etc, which ‘high’ schools in fully Grammar areas frequently fail to do.

TeenTimesTwo · 05/08/2019 21:30

Bright well supported children do well anywhere

This might be a good point to link to this thread currently running on the Secondary board:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/3656962-Would-a-bright-child-do-well-at-any-school

BertrandRussell · 05/08/2019 21:46

It’s also important to remember that education is not just about bright children. Whatever the prevailing view of mumsnetters is.

TapasForTwo · 05/08/2019 22:00

"It’s also important to remember that education is not just about bright children. Whatever the prevailing view of mumsnetters is."

Again, yours is the voice of reason.

AnnieAnt · 05/08/2019 22:43

I lived in a non-grammar area growing up and now live in Bucks. We very definitely have the 11+ here and children are automatically entered unless their parents withdraw them.

It's an awful system and I am still pondering moving away. I was quite prepared for DC not to qualify for grammar, and we are fortunate that there is a good Upper School, what I hadn't considered was different outcomes amongst my DC. Only one has sat it recently and fell apart during the test - I am reasonably sure the next will qualify and we really had to think hard about where to send DC1.

My DC attend the local state primary, which is not permitted to prepare children for the exam. Even with tuition, they are up against children from prep schools who do (there is a very high number of prep schools here). The exam takes place at the beginning of Y6 - contrast this with the preparation for SATs which goes on throughout Y6.

I appreciate that my view may have been different had DC1 qualified but it has been a very bruising process, not least seeing friendship groups split up. And I have concerns over this even if DC2 does. I also wasn't prepared for the language children use amongst themselves - we have been very careful at home, but they all refer to 'pass' or 'fail' amongst themselves.

I would think very carefully now before moving to an area with grammars.

JazzyGG · 05/08/2019 23:15

None in my area of the Midlands, there are still a couple in Birmingham, Sutton and Warwickshire. I never really knew what a Grammar was until I met my husband who went to one in a southern county that is big on them. He can't believe we don't have them here but to me it isn't a big deal.

campion · 05/08/2019 23:50

There are 8 grammar schools in Birmingham, 5 in Warwickshire (plus a bilateral) and 4 in the Black Country, so more than a couple.

EBearhug · 06/08/2019 00:46

campion, what is a bilateral in der his context, please?

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