Does Grammar School not exist to some people?

[tippytoesah]

Surely it must do?

I've never really discussed schooling before with DH as DC is still so young. But I did recently and mentioned that if he showed promise or wanting to take the 11+, we would support him in any way possible.

He looked at me as if I had two heads and said "What's an 11+? "

He really didn't know it was a thing and had never heard of it. I was shocked and mentioned it to SIL and her friend who also have 0 idea what it is!

I'm not from around here and I grew up in Essex. It was quite a big thing in that county, or at least the area I was in. You either went to a non Christian school which was absolutely terrible, went to a Christian school who were actually half decent or you did the 11+ if you were really bright. It was encouraged and supported.

Does it not even exist in some places then? I will look further into it but DH and close relatives/friends seem to be as clueless as him... maybe it isn't a thing in that part of the county

@SchrodingersMeowth Hutchey? That's not a grammar, it's a private school. The OP is talking about free state schooling with an 11+ entry exam.

Grammar schools are a tiny minority now. How odd to think they're the norm!

No grammars where I grew up (Midlands), nor where I live now (South-East). I do know what the 11+ is, though.

Heron no idea. A quick google suggests it's 45% which seems high although some grammars are more selective than others. It also suggests that the 11+ was abolished but I know I've just had a cohort of younger cousins who have sat some sort of transfer test and I don't think it was a specific entrance exam for a particular school.

Actually, I remain curious about the Watford Consortium - can anyone on here explain? My understanding is that the schools in the Consortium have different pass marks for entry, with WGGS/WBGS/Parmiters asking for the highest. And that all the schools still have some places based on distance and siblings. Are all the SW Herts secondaries in the Consortium? Is there any way to get into a local secondary if you live in the area other than taking the test, or is it a de facto 11+ now? Are the distance-based places generously applied or do you need to live very close to get into the schools on that criteria?

Aha, this would explain the NI transfer test situation.

www.thetransfertest.com/guide-transfer-test

Speaking as someone who may end up in that area at some point!

"Places at these schools are very sought after as they more often than not outperform the results of the private schools in the area."

Probably on account of how grammar schools have creamed off the most able students, whose parents are delighted with the excellent free education. Meanwhile the affluent, but less able, students head private. And people wonder why the results for the remaining students aren't so great.

Most grammars were abolished in the 1960s. It's just a few areas which kept the system, and in addition a few ancient grammars went private then and kept the grammar name.

Uddingston has grammar in their school names but it isn't a Grammar school. Hutcheson is a private school isn't it?

Nope, none where I live (South Coast) and there were none where I grew up either (city in the west country). Its like Middle Schools - archaically positioned between primary and secondary, they don't really have a place now, but the system persists in some small areas.

There are only eight grammar schools in Essex, four of which are in Southend/Westcliff, the others in Chelmsford and Colchester, I would hardly say that they are 'nearby' the majority of children in Essex.
I find it odd that you think grammars are more common than they are - I think that unless you grew up in a grammar area, the concept could pass you by.

I'm in Kent and only the children who apply for the Kent test take it. Not every child. In Dds school approx 14/60 took the test last year, and 12/60 are now going to start grammar school.

Doublerasberry
www.theschoolrun.com/south-west-hertfordshire-eleven-plus

I'm 67. My grammar school, along with the majority of English secondary schools, became a comprehensive school in 1967 or thereabouts. Why did a few counties retain their grammars? No idea.

Growing up I'd heard of grammar school/ 11+ because my dad told me about it when (he wasnt allowed to take it as his parents didnt want him to go to grammar school) but i didn't know it was still a thing until a work colleague mentioned it for their child. (They are in kent)

Why did a few counties retain their grammars? No idea.

We are in a staunchly blue area which as far as I know campaigned like mad for the grammars to remain. It worked-they’re going strong.

Agreed there are no grammar schools in Scotland, some have retained the name but are mainstream with intake based on catchment. Only independent schools are selective.

I find it amusing that the OP was shocked at the supposed ignorance of her family and it turns out that she is just as bad. I went to grammar, in fact my parents moved several times due to work but each time deliberately chose a grammar area, so that was my whole experience, but I knew even as a teenager that it wasn't the norm in most of the country.

But hopefully this thread has helped, even if there is some rubbish being written. The statement that "super selective are not grammars" is one. A grammar school is a state secondary that selects on basis of ability, which is exactly what a super selective does.

Someone said that all comprehensives set by ability and "top set is like being in a grammar". No it's not, at least not everywhere! I have a DD in a grammar in next county (we live just over the border) and a DS in a comprehensive as he didn't want to sit the exams. They only set for a few subjects at the comp so in most subjects it's nothing like it and even where he is set (and he is top set in all), the pace and expectations are much lower than at DD's grammar. And it's not because the grammar has creamed off the best - maybe 1% of the DCs in our town go to the grammar, with maybe 5% trying to get in.

I think the message here is that systems in every town/county are different and you mustn't assume everyone else has the same system. As a parent, you need to understand the system in your town way before your child gets to school age.

Grammars still about round my area. No 11+ as such though. I remember everyone taking the 11+ at my primary school regardless of ability (late 70s, Kingston borough), and those that passed automatically got into Tiffins or Kingston Grammar.

Now you have to tutor and put your kid forward for it. Primary schools have nothing to do with it.

mustbetimeforachange there are no grammar schools in Glasgow, or in Scotland as a whole. The concept doesn’t exist. As PP said, there are some schools that have ‘grammar’ in their names - e.g. Uddingston Grammar and Hamilton Grammar (both in South Lanarkshire) but they are not grammar schools in the way the OP means, they are just comprehensives. The same is true of schools called ‘academy’ in Scotland; again, a name, but not an ‘academy’ in the sense of some English schools.

In Scotland, most children go to their local school. There isn’t as much competition for places etc as there is in England, although there are some authorities where people buy into the area to ensure their children go to what they perceive to be a ‘better’ school (for example - East Renfrewshire).

All schools in Scotland are under the control of local authorities (council), except private schools and Jordanhill School in Glasgow, which is not private, but receives its funding directly from the Scottish government.

There are some specialist schools e.g. Gaelic school, performing arts, football etc. Pupils from out with the catchment can apply via placing request if they wish to attend.

Tbh OP I went to a selective school, as did DH (Midlands) and "11+" wouldn't mean much to me either. I sat an Entrance Exam at the specific school.

11+ to me is something MIL did in the last year of primary when they all took it to see who went to the grammar and who didn't. So I'd assume you mean a standard test all the kids did in primary, not a specific set of exams certain kids did at specific schools to gain entry there

I honestly didn't know the 11+ was still a thing until I joined mumsnet.

My father had to sit the 11+, it was compulsory in his school but Wales does not have a recognisable grammar school system at present which I'm pretty happy about.

It seems a bit strange to have not even heard of the 11+ or grammar schools! Although maybe I have because my Mum went to one and I also learnt about the history of it a bit in sociology at school.

We don't have any in my area and I'm so glad for all the reasons @Teentimestwo mentions (great post btw!):

*I'm so glad we accidentally live in Hampshire, all comp area.

• None of the ridiculous angst (and expense for tutoring) at age 9/10 for doing 11+.
• late developers still get all options open to them
• children with a skewed profile still get all options open to them
• children with disorganised parents still get all options open to them
• children of poorer families who can't afford tutoring aren't disadvantaged wrt their secondary school
• comps cater for the top (coming out with all 7-9) and the low achievers perfectly well if they are good schools. *

Mustbe, thanks, there’s a link to the official site there which doesn’t answer all my admissions questions but does at least show that there are local schools not involved.

Interesting to note that while the first site refers to it as an 11+, the Consortium itself doesn’t, so maybe colloquial but inaccurate use of the term (based on memories of the old system) means there’s an impression that 11+s are far more common than they actually are.

No grammar schools here either op. Liverpool.
Liverpool Blue Coat School is a grammar school though I think they claimed to be comprehensive for a while.