Does Grammar School not exist to some people?

[tippytoesah]

Surely it must do?

I've never really discussed schooling before with DH as DC is still so young. But I did recently and mentioned that if he showed promise or wanting to take the 11+, we would support him in any way possible.

He looked at me as if I had two heads and said "What's an 11+? "

He really didn't know it was a thing and had never heard of it. I was shocked and mentioned it to SIL and her friend who also have 0 idea what it is!

I'm not from around here and I grew up in Essex. It was quite a big thing in that county, or at least the area I was in. You either went to a non Christian school which was absolutely terrible, went to a Christian school who were actually half decent or you did the 11+ if you were really bright. It was encouraged and supported.

Does it not even exist in some places then? I will look further into it but DH and close relatives/friends seem to be as clueless as him... maybe it isn't a thing in that part of the county

It’s called ‘Common Entrance’ and normally takes place at age 13.

No, that’s a type of entrance exam but not one for all private schools. It’s for public schools who subscribe to it. Most private schools have entrance at 11. Some at 11 and 13. The ones with entrance only at 13 will assume most of their pupils come from prep schools, who take kids from 4-13 and prepare children for Common Entrance. Each of these schools will require a certain score in the CE exam. I recommend spending some time in the Education folder as if you are used to the state system, this stuff is eye-opening!

Selective private schools tend to have an entrance exam that applicants sit during year 6. How demanding that test is depends on the school.

In Bromley, a few on the comps now have an actual grammar stream. The kids that get into that school sit an ability test and the top ones are put in the grammar stream –different to a top set.

I suspect it's to try and encourage bright kids to stay in the schools in the borough and not all disappear off to the grammars in neighbouring Bexley and Kent which is actually getting more difficult anyway with some of those schools prioritising local children and setting higher entry scores for children not in area.

To add to the confusion many schools with grammar in their name are not grammar state schools. Eg Kingston grammar is an expensive private school that you have to sit an exam to get in. Meanwhile Tiffin school, within half a mile of it, are a boys and girls state schools that have an exam to get in and are difficult to get into, and are actually in my opinion a grammar in all but name.

I grew up in NI where as far as I know most people still sit an 11+ exam and grammar schools are very much the norm - I went to one. We were all of a similar ability albeit some were better at maths, some preferred languages etc, and I don't think anyone got left behind. I had a much better experience at grammar school than my husband did at the local comp. He was very very bright and suffered relentless bullying and was bored to tears as he just wasn't challenged.

There's only one school within about 30 miles of here that has a grammar stream.

We have 1 grammar school here and 4 in the next town!!!!!! Never considered my DDs doing the test as I disagree with the whole system of them but there is sheer panic from some parents every year at the thought of their child not getting in and having to go to the local comps ( which are excellent btw).

Our school has Grammar in the name but isn’t a grammar, it’s a totally standard comp. A friend who recruits for top companies advised me that an applicant from a grammar school would be expected to do better than an applicant from a comp, so it was actually harming the students having Grammar in the title.
The only proper Grammar schools here are in a small town, girls and boys schools, but have such a tiny catchment area now that here’s no point applying if you don’t live very close.

Would be better here if we had none.

No Grammar schools in East Yorkshire, just normal schools and some private ones.

We have one, an all girls but it's terrible for bullying. I didn't know what you meant when you said 11+ 😳

Most grammar schools were gone by the 70’s - there are 163 left in the UK of nearly 3.5k secondary schools - so it’s not surprising that people don’t know they still exist, especially as the majority of counties in the UK haven’t had them for nearly 50 years!

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grammar_schools_in_England

A friend who recruits for top companies advised me that an applicant from a grammar school would be expected to do better than an applicant from a comp, so it was actually harming the students having Grammar in the title.

The sooner all companies move to blind recruiting the better.

The whole of England used to have Grammar schools. They were abolished by a Labour government who started rebranding them to comps, beginning with the north of the country. The closing of Grammar schools ceased when labour lost the next general election meaning that some are still in existence. Isn't Kent the only county that still operates an entire Grammar school system?

163 selective grammars in England

evilharpy - what percentage of children go to a grammar as opposed to a comp in NI?

‘I've just looked it up. 163 in England, 69 in NI.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammar_school’

Some unitary authorities such as Slough has a consortium of four grammar schools - with varying catchment areas - so 11+ preparation & exams is a norm. That said, the local state primary schools do not facilitate the 11+ process, this is done by parents alone &/or private primary prep schools.

Entirely possible, given that most education authorities have no grammar schools or selective academic entry criteria, for people to not know or have experience of the 11+ process.

Most grammar schools were abolished when comprehensives were introduced, in favour of educational equality. A few LEAs managed to hang onto them, and some of those take from outside their catchment area (hence 'super-selective').

I went to one of the first comprehensive schools in the late 60s and there were no longer grammars in the local area so you had to travel for at least an hour if you wanted to go to a grammar. I could have sat the 11+ but I didn't want to travel that far or leave my friends. No one in my year took the 11+, if I remember correctly.

They had converted the grammar and tech and secondary modern by combining them in our area. I was in the first comprehensive year and all those in the years above were one or the other which was pretty odd. We had to walk between the two schools for different lessons.

I grew up in Kent in the 80s and it was one of the few places in the country that still had a selective grammar school system and I knew that then. The vast majority of the country doesn't have grammar schools.

To confuse matters further, my boss lives in a nice village and a few other little places like Torrington etc have the catchment for a very nice primary school. Her DC won't move onto actual senior school until 13!

None of it is private either, nor is it selective. It's just a small catchment area.

It's not a thing where I live. The only context my kids would hear about it is school in 'the olden days'. Which is where it belongs imo but that's another thread.

More Grammar schools shut under Margaret Thatcher than any other Prime Minister. Until about the late 80s there was a consensus from all parties to do away with Grammar schools.

Reigate Grammar has been a private school for donkeys: my husband went there.
Trafford has grammar schools. I’m tutoring our youngest son to get in to one. I’m from N.Ireland and went to a grammar school - apparently the top one in the country. I didn’t love it but can see now (am a teacher) that everyone being taught at a high level (the assumption being that you could do all the work) had its advantages. I wouldn’t say it was an ideal experience though. I had clever friends who, for whatever reason, failed the exam and were devastated.

I don’t know if this is still the case, but in NI every child at a grammar school got more funding per head than a child at a secondary school. I was shocked when I found this out. It is, of course, morally wrong. NI schools produce the highest amount of high GCSE passes in the UK but also the highest amount of children leaving with zero passes. I think that is pretty much what the eleven plus does. It’s divisive. Yet, ironically I find myself tutoring my own child to get in to one here in England because the local secondary schools in our catchment are dire.

“Her DC won't move onto actual senior school until 13!”

Are you sure? There are also very few surviving middle schools.

No grammar schools here either op. Liverpool.

I do know about the 11 plus though as my dad passed it when he was younger. It did exist here for many years.

Whoever said Glasgow has grammar schools, these must be private or have just retained the name, surely? I didn't think there were any selective state schools in Scotland?