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Original poster

Does Grammar School not exist to some people?

669 replies

tippytoesah · 02/08/2019 08:37

Surely it must do?

I've never really discussed schooling before with DH as DC is still so young. But I did recently and mentioned that if he showed promise or wanting to take the 11+, we would support him in any way possible.

He looked at me as if I had two heads and said "What's an 11+? Confused"

He really didn't know it was a thing and had never heard of it. I was shocked and mentioned it to SIL and her friend who also have 0 idea what it is!

I'm not from around here and I grew up in Essex. It was quite a big thing in that county, or at least the area I was in. You either went to a non Christian school which was absolutely terrible, went to a Christian school who were actually half decent or you did the 11+ if you were really bright. It was encouraged and supported.

Does it not even exist in some places then? I will look further into it but DH and close relatives/friends seem to be as clueless as him... maybe it isn't a thing in that part of the county

OP posts:
Henlie · 02/08/2019 09:07

Some of the large towns in Kent still have Grammar schools. It’s fiercely competitive to get it, with many people moving homes to be in the catchment area and/or using a tutor to prepare for the 11+. Places at these schools are very sought after as they more often than not outperform the results of the private schools in the area.

Mesmermancer · 02/08/2019 09:08

Only comps here in surrey.

Reigate Grammar school at least, also one in Guildford I believe.

Doubleraspberry · 02/08/2019 09:09

Guildford Grammar, like Reigate, is a private school. Just has the old name.

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Mustbetimeforachange · 02/08/2019 09:09

Some selective state schools that have their own tests but they are not formal 11+s and plenty of people won’t ever come across those schools.
Of course they are a formal 11 plus. What do you mean? I think only 2 counties have a fully 2 tier system still - Kent & Buckinghamshire? As someone said, 160-odd grammar schools in England still.

campion · 02/08/2019 09:11

You'd know about 11 plus in the West Midlands. Tutoring for it is an industry.

Mesmermancer · 02/08/2019 09:11

Guildford Grammar, like Reigate, is a private school. Just has the old name.

Really? When I was in primary I was going to do the entrance exam for it and this was only mid 2000s. Do you have entrance exams for private schools to? Sorry I genuinely didn't know.

lottiegarbanzo · 02/08/2019 09:11

Well you and your DH are as parochial and uninformed as each other. Luckily there is a wealth of information on the MN education boards, if you'd like to find out more about schools in your area, or the wider picture.

HaplessHousewife · 02/08/2019 09:12

Bromley does not have grammar schools. It has two super selectives, one for girls and one for boys.

Children from Bromley who go to grammar schools travel to schools in Kent or Bexley often having to score higher on the 11+ as they are 'out of area'.

Mesmermancer · 02/08/2019 09:12

Too*

Doubleraspberry · 02/08/2019 09:12

I mean that the old system meant that every child took the 11+ as a matter of course. Like the Kent test now for example. Whereas the remaining grammars (many of which of course are not called ‘grammar’ so easy for people not to recognise the term) only test those who apply to them.

The Watford consortium is in a odd place! I assume there may be similar tests in other parts of the country.

But in most of the country, children will not sit any sort of ability test in year 6, unlike the 11+ days.

Mustbetimeforachange · 02/08/2019 09:12

I've just looked it up. 163 in England, 69 in NI.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammar_school

BertrandRussell · 02/08/2019 09:14

Kent and, I think Buckinghamshire are wholly selective-that is, they have no comprehensive schools. The other residual grammar schools are scattered in various other areas.

PrincessScarlett · 02/08/2019 09:15

I live in a county where there are grammar schools but for the majority of children grammar schools do not exist as they have no chance of getting into them.

At my DCs school the brightest 10% are put forward for the 11+ but for the last few years there has only been one or two students that pass well enough to get into grammar school.

fedup21 · 02/08/2019 09:15

Some selective state schools that have their own tests but they are not formal 11+ and plenty of people won’t ever come across those schools.

Yes.
There is a partially selective school near us is that has an entrance exam. They don’t call it the 11+ and it’s not anything to do with the local 11+ Grammar schools consortium, it’s just a VR test set by GL assessment.

Doubleraspberry · 02/08/2019 09:16

And your link makes my point. I was talking about a formal 11+ as part of the secondary education system.

We live in an area where we could decide to put our kids in for a selective test in year 6 and stick them on two trains every morning if successful. But it’s a targeted test of applicants only and the overwhelming majority of kids in the local schools won’t do it.

TeenTimesTwo · 02/08/2019 09:17

I'm so glad we accidentally live in Hampshire, all comp area.

  • None of the ridiculous angst (and expense for tutoring) at age 9/10 for doing 11+.
  • late developers still get all options open to them
  • children with a skewed profile still get all options open to them
  • children with disorganised parents still get all options open to them
  • children of poorer families who can't afford tutoring aren't disadvantaged wrt their secondary school
  • comps cater for the top (coming out with all 7-9) and the low achievers perfectly well if they are good schools.

My not particularly academic DD1 was able to do 2 languages for GCSE. If we lived in a full grammar area I believe she would have been unlikely to be offered that (because there wouldn't have been sufficient numbers wanting to do it after the top quarter had been creamed off).

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 02/08/2019 09:17

Mesmermancer, most private schools have some kind of entrance test but they're variable in how important the test is. In some of the more popular and academic private schools they are as competitive as the 11 plus, in others the joke is that all they really need to ask is '1. What is your name? 2. Can your parents afford the fees?'

fedup21 · 02/08/2019 09:17

Do you have entrance exams for private schools to? Sorry I genuinely didn't know.

There are sometimes.

Some are very selective and will have an entrance test that is positively brutal, others just use the test to weed out undesirables!

MiggyInThePiddle · 02/08/2019 09:18

TippyToes: Things in schools are very different these days.
Comprehensives have top sets which teach grammar ability kids at Grammar speed of learning.

Grammar schools have been found to add very little - the overall achievement of children in Kent, still a full grammar system county - is no different to the overall achievement of comparable counties which operate a fully comprehensive system.

Obviously some schools are better than others, but that goes for grammars too.

Partially selective: occasional and few -and-far between schools (I only know of one in London) are comprehensives but offer a number of competitive places based on a test score.

TatianaLarina · 02/08/2019 09:18

It’s a bit weird not to have heard of the 11+. You might not have grammars in your area, but they exist in other areas and private schools do 11+ and 13+.

Does not get out much? Or read the papers?

WitsEnding · 02/08/2019 09:19

SW England - grammar schools were abolished where I grew up when I was 13, I'm still bitter about it. We moved to the city and my children could have gone to grammar or Catholic equivalents - or the comps.

KnifeAngel · 02/08/2019 09:19

None in my city. You can apply to the next city but it's about 30 miles away.

fedup21 · 02/08/2019 09:19

Ha your DH not even heard of grammar schools, OP?

Did you go to one yourself? I’m actually surprised this conversation has never come up before!

Stopyourhavering64 · 02/08/2019 09:19

None in Scotland, where I grew up , and none in part of country we now live in. Dh, our 3 dcs and I all went to local comps and still managed to do well in exams and go to decent Universities

icecreamsundae32 · 02/08/2019 09:20

Loads of grammars here in Kent and neighbouring Bexley/Bromley. My son is sitting 11+ in September, both me and DH went to grammar schools.