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Original poster

Does Grammar School not exist to some people?

669 replies

tippytoesah · 02/08/2019 08:37

Surely it must do?

I've never really discussed schooling before with DH as DC is still so young. But I did recently and mentioned that if he showed promise or wanting to take the 11+, we would support him in any way possible.

He looked at me as if I had two heads and said "What's an 11+? Confused"

He really didn't know it was a thing and had never heard of it. I was shocked and mentioned it to SIL and her friend who also have 0 idea what it is!

I'm not from around here and I grew up in Essex. It was quite a big thing in that county, or at least the area I was in. You either went to a non Christian school which was absolutely terrible, went to a Christian school who were actually half decent or you did the 11+ if you were really bright. It was encouraged and supported.

Does it not even exist in some places then? I will look further into it but DH and close relatives/friends seem to be as clueless as him... maybe it isn't a thing in that part of the county

OP posts:
nagynolonger · 03/08/2019 06:02

I'm over 60 and the the 11+ had been abolished in my home county before I went to secondary school. Comprehensives have been around for a long time in some areas.

There are a few schools with Grammar in their name but they are all fee paying schools with their own selection exams.

Dandelion1993 · 03/08/2019 06:05

It's only here in Kent thay we do the 11+ and grammar schools.

That's why it's called the Kent Test

imip · 03/08/2019 06:05

My understanding is that no new grammar schools are allowed to be built anymore, however Theresa May did give them a boost in funding about 12 months ago. Shameful when the overall education and SEND budgets are woefully inadequate.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

General education Secondary education
cortex10 · 03/08/2019 06:31

My region abolished the majority of grammars in the 70s with just a tiny handful remaining for some reason.

daisypond · 03/08/2019 07:06

*It's only here in Kent thay we do the 11+ and grammar schools.

That's why it's called the Kent Test*
Have you read the thread? There are several areas that have grammar schools, not just Kent. The fact that the test is called the Kent Test in Kent is neither here nor there.

Gizlotsmum · 03/08/2019 07:07

No just Kent. Kent have their own 11+ papers ( all areas vary slightly in the form the test takes) which is why it is called the Kent Test

YouLikeTheBadOnesToo · 03/08/2019 07:09

I’ll be completely honest, until a few years ago, I didn’t realise state grammar schools still existed. (I was aware of them & the 11+, but in a purely historical sense)
I’m from the North East, and there aren’t any state grammar schools here (I do know of a private one in Newcastle).
DH and I lived in North Yorkshire for a couple years before ds was born. There are 2 state grammars there, but they were almost 1.5 & 2 hours away from our town, so not exactly accessible.

BertrandRussell · 03/08/2019 07:11

“No just Kent. Kent have their own 11+ papers ( all areas vary slightly in the form the test takes) which is why it is called the Kent Test“

historysock · 03/08/2019 07:11

I'm in herts-none that I know of here, but I remember my sister stressing out about my Nephew doing his 11 plus in Kent, to get in to the grammar school. Then, as now, I thought it was a total waste of time and not a healthy system. He is now just qualifying to be a primary school teacher-brilliant job. But he could have done it without having a near nervous breakdown aged 11 over a crazy exam!

Punxsutawney · 03/08/2019 07:12

Unfortunately I live in an area that still has grammar schools. Youngest Ds attends our local all boys state grammar. It was the worst decision I ever made sending him there. He had no formal tutoring just did a couple of practice papers. He has possible autism and although he is academically very able there has been very little support for him. The school do not really have much pastoral care, behaviour is poor and Ofsted haven't visited for 8 years. Thirteen boys were permanently excluded at Easter for having /taking drugs on school premises.

The school got some of the extra funding from Theresa May, so they are taking on extra pupils in September. They can't support or control the students they already have.

My other child went to our local secondary modern and it really was a great school. He achieved so much there. The school ethos and teaching staff were amazing.

BertrandRussell · 03/08/2019 07:15

Kent, Medway, Buckinghamshire and Lincolnshire are all still wholly selective. Gloucestershire, Trafford and Slough have a significant number of grammar schools, and some other authorities retain a few. Kent is the biggest wholly selective area- but not the only one.

historysock · 03/08/2019 07:15

As pp said Beds and some parts of Herts have the three school system involving middle school which is something I wasn't familiar with growing up and seems really odd to me!

bumblingalonghappily · 03/08/2019 07:27

@Userzzzzz what you've said is true but only for some parts of the country (oxford springs to mind). I live somewhere where the private schools aren't great and we have no grammars- the state schools are superb and you would be crazy to spend your money to get your child into one or the private schools, unless you felt your child would truly benefit from the tiny class sizes. I went to one of the best best selective private schools in the country and I would still very happily send my child to the state schools in my area.

If just takes some research but not all counties are as you have described luckily!

BertrandRussell · 03/08/2019 07:30

“No grammars near me but since moving I’ve realised the private system acts in the same way- so many people do private for secondary at selective day schools that the comps are basically like secondary moderns and are a bit shite.”

What % go private?

Cuppa12345 · 03/08/2019 07:34

I just came here to say I went to Southend High School For Girls 😂

I now live in Kent. It's big here too.

Cuppa12345 · 03/08/2019 07:35

Sorry, that was on reply to a comment about that school on the first page. Didn't clock there was 17 pages...

TeaKettleBell · 03/08/2019 07:37

In NI we have grammar schools.
The assembly abolished the 11+ but the schools got together and now kids can now sit two 11+ equivalents.
It is a cruel system.

DippyAvocado · 03/08/2019 07:37

I live in Essex but unless you live in Colchester, Chelmsford or Southend there are no grammar schools. Chelmsford is my nearest one and they now specify that they take 80% of pupils only from Chelmsford itself or the surrounding villages. Even if my DC were one of the 20% of others to get in, they no longer run school buses from further out so they wouldn't be able to get there.

TeaKettleBell · 03/08/2019 07:43

I will add that my parents both did well in the 11+ and my mother in particular says it was a good mechanism for lifting people out of poverty following the second world war. She had friends from school who were living in incredible conditions but who were provided for once they passed the 11+ and got into the grammar school.
Her old school is now a church of England comp.

Fontofnoknowledge · 03/08/2019 07:45

Grammars all over our area .. I'm on East Sussex Kent border. However they are not something I have ever wanted to support.

When selection was done on a less uneven playing field than now - with poor bright children enjoying access to the 11+ preparation within the classroom. Then everyone had a fighting chance - however for years now the Education authority has banned all coaching for the exam within the school. Leaving those without the funds to sit the exam against many less bright but heavily tutored children.

Grammar schools in this area are now populated by the wealthy upper and middle classes who start the private tutoring specifically for the exam at 7/8yrs old . Those from lower income homes no longer just need to be bright and absolutely suitable children for an academically focussed grammar school education- but instead- they must be super bright.. to compete against all those tutored within an inch of their lives.

It is no longer selection by ability but selection by socio-economic advantage. Not something I would ever wish to support. Luckily for us we have an outstanding coed comprehensive. (Admittedly selection by Church attendance - but at least that is an option for all and not reliant on your income).. Mine went to this one and went on to attend the exact same Universities as their friends at the Grammars .

madeyemoodysmum · 03/08/2019 07:49

Not many in Herts at all. I know about them but it would enter my radar to make my kids do 11+ as chances of a place are tiny.

Also would mean a daily commute. No friends nearby etc.

madeyemoodysmum · 03/08/2019 07:52

I’m sure they work well in the 50’s and 60’s but now things have changed. House prices mean the getting into a school is a whole new ball game and if you can afford a house in a particular area you might be able to afford a tutor for a few years so now days framers are for the affluent.

stucknoue · 03/08/2019 07:53

Nope, lived in multiple places and none have had grammar schools. They only exist in certain counties and London boroughs who didn't get rid of them in the 70's. They are a divisive issue and fail more children than they help, kids like my daughter who is waiting on a level results (predicted 4 A's) who at 10/11 was barely reading due to dyslexia, she only achieved the recommended sats result for age 7 (2) when she was 11 but around 13 everything clicked. If we had lived in a grammar school area she would have been condemned to the sink school so her sister (who didn't get 4 A's) could get all the advantages and money spent on her... 11 is far too young to decide on life chances.

Danglingmod · 03/08/2019 07:58

Lincolnshire is not wholly selective. Only the market towns /a big ring around the edges. The city of Lincoln and the main bit of the county in the middle is comprehensive. There are just 13 grammar schools but serving about 7 places in total as some of these are a boys' and girls' school next to each other/in the same town.

NavyBlueHue · 03/08/2019 08:01

In my area the only grammar school is a private school so only for those who can afford it if they get in.

You take the 11+ but it’s purely for those wanting private school entry.

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