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Original poster

Does Grammar School not exist to some people?

669 replies

tippytoesah · 02/08/2019 08:37

Surely it must do?

I've never really discussed schooling before with DH as DC is still so young. But I did recently and mentioned that if he showed promise or wanting to take the 11+, we would support him in any way possible.

He looked at me as if I had two heads and said "What's an 11+? Confused"

He really didn't know it was a thing and had never heard of it. I was shocked and mentioned it to SIL and her friend who also have 0 idea what it is!

I'm not from around here and I grew up in Essex. It was quite a big thing in that county, or at least the area I was in. You either went to a non Christian school which was absolutely terrible, went to a Christian school who were actually half decent or you did the 11+ if you were really bright. It was encouraged and supported.

Does it not even exist in some places then? I will look further into it but DH and close relatives/friends seem to be as clueless as him... maybe it isn't a thing in that part of the county

OP posts:
Userzzzzz · 03/08/2019 08:01

BertrandRussell

I don’t know but it is high. The state primaries are all excellent and that was one of the reasons I chose where we lived. It was only once I started talking to people, looking up results etc that we realised that we were effectively in a selective system though the private sector.

Where I grew up, a few people travelled to the grammar which was in the next county, vast majority went compensive and then some went to the super expensive boarding schools (although I didn’t know anyone personally that did). Selective day schools in the private sector didn’t really exist. The comprehensive system has a very different set of demographics where I am for secondary.

There are a few excellent secondaries but we are out of catchment. My catchment school would not offer the same choices at gcse that I had in mycomp (E.g. no option to do two language GCSEs).

If we can afford the fees and have girls that can pass the tests I’d have a choice of 4 day schools within 20 mins travel time.

BertrandRussell · 03/08/2019 08:06

“we realised that we were effectively in a selective system though the private sector.“

But presumably only in your particular socio-economic circle?

SlocombePooter · 03/08/2019 08:10

Danglingmod beat me to it! As I already remarked upthread, Lincoln itself does NOT have grammar schools.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

General education Secondary education
Userzzzzz · 03/08/2019 08:17

BertrandRussell Yes I don’t deny that there won’t be a choice for many and I don’t think that’s a good thing. I was just quite surprised how different it was to where I grew up.

noodlenosefraggle · 03/08/2019 08:24

I moved from a grammar school area, where there was a stark difference between the grammar schools and the secondary schools to an area where most schools are good that is not a grammar school area. I know it's almost unheard of on Mumsnet, but my children are of average intelligence. They are much better off in the non grammar school area. There are only a few counties that still have grammars.

MyOtherProfile · 03/08/2019 08:28

No grammars in any of the 6 counties I've lived in the UK. My own children go to a comprehensive which is truly comprehensive and I absolutely love it. Reading this thread I am so glad we don't have grammars round here, even though I have every confidence my dc would pass the 11+.

TheVanguardSix · 03/08/2019 08:33

It doesn't 'exist' for me because there isn't one near me.

rugbychick1 · 03/08/2019 09:00

There are 7 grammar schools in Gloucestershire. But the problem is children in surrounding counties do the 11+ too, meaning that some children in Gloucestershire miss out on places at the grammar schools as places are taken by out of county children

JacquesHammer · 03/08/2019 09:18

even though I have every confidence my dc would pass the 11+

That made me smile Grin

MyOtherProfile · 03/08/2019 09:28

Really, why?

fedup21 · 03/08/2019 09:44

It's only here in Kent thay we do the 11+ and grammar schools.That's why it's called the Kent Test

Why do people write such bizarre things?!

Doubleraspberry · 03/08/2019 09:48

Myotherprofile I suspect because MN is absolutely full of parents with above average intelligence children. Nothing personal to you.

I’ve got three kids. I reckon one would have a shot at 11+ on a good day with some tutoring, one has some additional educational needs which means no chance, and one is too early to tell but I’m hoping she’s my future Model UN candidate.

Passthecherrycoke · 03/08/2019 09:56

@Dandelion1993 sorry but that made me laugh so much. It’s only called the Kent test in Kent, you wally 🤣

And yes, nearly every parent in Kent whose child failed the 11+ (sorry Kent test) has a cast iron reason why they should’ve passed, from an illness to a relative dying to a house move to a rubbish tutor it’s such a. Rubbish business.

Matildatoldsuchdreadfullies · 03/08/2019 10:08

I’m a hypocrite, apparently.

I’m vehemently opposed to selection at 11. But I have 4 children at grammar schools.

However, I live in darkest Kent and so my children are in a selective system. They couldn’t go to a non-selective school. The whole system is selective.

I wish people would realise that a county like Kent doesn’t have a grammar system - the majority of children don’t go to a grammar school. It would be more accurate to describe it as a secondary modern system.

shinynewapple · 03/08/2019 10:13

Where I live there are a few grammar schools in a neighbouring authority which we are entitled to apply to. They are very selective. I am aware that many parents who live in neighbourhoods where the state secondaries are not so good have their DC tutored in the hope of obtaining a grammar school place. Looking from the outside I don't think this is particularly good for the DC who may then struggle for the next 6 years. Perhaps it's better than the alternative of a really poor secondary. I'll admit I don't know what I would do if that were me as luckily we have two good state secondaries in walking distance from our house.

crisscrosscranky · 03/08/2019 10:22

@DippyAvocado I wish that were true for the kids sake. It's not unusual for kids to travel up to a couple of hours by train, bus, coach etc to attend the Southend grammars- I work in a London Borough (Essex but not really Essex!) and it's not unusual for me to see kids in Westcliff uniform getting off the bus as I drive home (at 5pm).

There is a whole forum dedicated to 11plus lunacy- as a parent it becomes very hard not to become over invested through the process as achievement at the grammars is so much better than the local non-selective (I understand the reasons why and the criticism of the system but while it exists... if you can't beat them join them...

gamerwidow · 03/08/2019 10:27

I wish people would realise that a county like Kent doesn’t have a grammar system - the majority of children don’t go to a grammar school. It would be more accurate to describe it as a secondary modern system
very true, it's the top 20%(ish) who pass the 11 plus many of which are out of area applicants. 80%+ children are educated in secondary moderns and they would do better in a comprehensive.
That's not to say those not in the grammar system can't do well but it's harder to do so than it would be in a comprehensive in a non selective area imo.
I was always a fan of the grammar school system having benefited from it myself but then I had a DD who really struggles at school and I can see how flawed it really is (massive hyprocrite? me?, never Grin)

Heratnumber7 · 03/08/2019 10:34

I went to a grammar school in the 70s.

There are none closer than an hour away from where we live though, with no easy public transport so it wasn't an option for my DCs.

Actually there was no real choice of school at all. The closest other school is about 3 bus journeys away - maybe 40 mins. And way off the routes DH and I would take to work.

Everyone in our small town goes to the same school.

BertrandRussell · 03/08/2019 10:38

“very true, it's the top 20%(ish) who pass the 11 plus many of which are out of area applicants”
For total accuracy, the out of area thing only applies to the super selective. The “ordinary” grammars have catchments.

gamerwidow · 03/08/2019 10:42

For total accuracy, the out of area thing only applies to the super selective. The “ordinary” grammars have catchments.
Nope in Bexley they accept out of area applicants to "ordinary" grammars but you have to pass in the top 10% to get a place.
My Greenwich based niece went to Bexley grammar by this very route.

MyOtherProfile · 03/08/2019 10:43

Ah thanks for the explanation @Doubleraspberry obvs I was just slipping in a stealth boast there. They're off to the Oxbridge open days in the autumn even though they haven't done their GCSEs yet Grin

SlocombePooter · 03/08/2019 10:45

Actually, bertrand, you are a bit sloppy with the stats on grammar schools. You boldly stated that Lincolnshire is all grammar, and you have been corrected twice on this thread.

JoJoSM2 · 03/08/2019 10:48

Not all grammar areas have awful comps, though. In my LA (Sutton) there are 5 grammars and 10 comps. Only one of the comps is bad (and I think that’s only temporary tbh). I honestly do think that here the grammars are a lovely idea and a great option for some kids and I don’t find it divisive tbh.

Very different to being in Kent.

BertrandRussell · 03/08/2019 10:54

“You boldly stated that Lincolnshire is all grammar”

Oh, sorry- that’s what happens when you c&p.

Not sure what was “bold” about it, though!

AlpenCrazy · 03/08/2019 10:54

All grammar areas are different

Very very different being in an area that's not a grammar county but has a few super selectives that have no catchment

There you have proper comprehensives

Where in Kent the whole top set is missing so it's not comprehensive at all it's secondary modern

And certainly in the bit of Kent we are in, the grammars and super selectives are populated by the middle classes and the secondary moderns aren't

It's the opposite of social mobility