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Original poster

Does Grammar School not exist to some people?

669 replies

tippytoesah · 02/08/2019 08:37

Surely it must do?

I've never really discussed schooling before with DH as DC is still so young. But I did recently and mentioned that if he showed promise or wanting to take the 11+, we would support him in any way possible.

He looked at me as if I had two heads and said "What's an 11+? Confused"

He really didn't know it was a thing and had never heard of it. I was shocked and mentioned it to SIL and her friend who also have 0 idea what it is!

I'm not from around here and I grew up in Essex. It was quite a big thing in that county, or at least the area I was in. You either went to a non Christian school which was absolutely terrible, went to a Christian school who were actually half decent or you did the 11+ if you were really bright. It was encouraged and supported.

Does it not even exist in some places then? I will look further into it but DH and close relatives/friends seem to be as clueless as him... maybe it isn't a thing in that part of the county

OP posts:
secretsciurusvulgaris · 02/08/2019 19:32

I wonder what they are doing differently in NI then, where you will see top performing grammar schools with 15-20% on FSM.

TapasForTwo · 02/08/2019 19:41

Probably because there are proportionately more grammar schools there.

Frazzled2207 · 02/08/2019 19:42

I'm in greater Manchester and only one of the 10 boroughs has grammar schools.

I grew up in wales where I'm fairly sure there are none.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

General education Secondary education
crisscrosscranky · 02/08/2019 19:44

I'm in Essex and DD will start at one of the grammars in September. Some of her classmates are travelling from East London to attend- the competition is still pretty extreme despite them not being "super selectives".

secretsciurusvulgaris · 02/08/2019 19:46

Yes, but I am talking about the top schools, so 92% with 3 a-levels at grade a*-c and 15% on FSM.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/education/revealed-alevel-league-tables-for-northern-ireland-schools-29182896.html

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 02/08/2019 19:49

Haven't been any in Wales for 30 years plus

Maladicta · 02/08/2019 19:55

We're in a full grammar county. When we moved here, the dcs were tiny and it just didn't occur to us what the implications would be.

theunrivalledjoysofparenting · 02/08/2019 19:59

@tippytoesah, Beds is an odd county for schools. Right next to grammar school Bucks, some parts of Beds have a three-school system - lower, middle, upper. Some dc go to grammar in Bucks.

Do some research!

Allli · 02/08/2019 20:01

None in Scotland that I have ever heard of.

FizzBuzzBangWoof · 02/08/2019 20:02

I've heard of the 11+ and grammar schools (both my parents went to grammars in the 50s/60s) but have no personal experience of them

There were no grammar schools in the area where I grew up so I went to a comp (I'm 44) and there are no grammars in the area where I live now either so my kids also attend a comp

AJPTaylor · 02/08/2019 20:04

We were in Bedfordshire. No grammars thank God. We relocated and picked east sussex for the same reason

TatianaLarina · 02/08/2019 20:04

Surely people realised the 11+ still existed for private school at least? Confused

Fragalino · 02/08/2019 20:08

Bertrand your very agaisnt grammar but I'm sure your dd went to one? Sorry if I'm wrong....

But when someone has what's called 'confirmation bias' they will always read what they want into stats.

You asked a question earlier, why can't dc all be educated under the same roof. Some posters replied but I'm not sure you saw the replies and acknowledged them?

The Sutton Trust - social mobility charity, report on why dc with fsm has been endlessly posted on threads about grammars for years and yet today when I mentioned it, you didn't seem to know what it was? But you were on the same threads?

People have anecdotally and stats wise referenced how poor dc were able to access grammars back in the day.

All of it you seem to ignore or discount because, plainly your just agaisnt the system.

Someone could present the most water tight argument for grammar proving social mobility and you would reject it.

It's your business to take that stance but why then the endless questions you then ignore.
I don't know what your schooling is, perhaps privileged? But please remember some posters who answer the you in good faith have had painful, tortured school experiences, in fact a poster who replied to you said she's tried to end her life over the school experience. Maybe stop asking the questions and declare your hand so people don't innocently rake up personal tricky memories....

luckylavender · 02/08/2019 20:10

Grammar schools are very controversial & have been phased out in many many areas. This happened in the 1970s. When Theresa May became Tory Leader it was a policy initiative to bring them back, but it proved far too unpopular.

BertrandRussell · 02/08/2019 20:17

“Someone could present the most water tight argument for grammar proving social mobility and you would reject it.“

If someone provided me with a watertight argument the. Of course I would accept it! But absolutely none of the academic research supports the argument. Unless you know different?

Incidentally, not sure if you were trying a “gotcha”? Yes, I live in a wholly selective area. I have one child who passed and one who didn’t. I make no secret of this. I’s how I know first hand what a hideous system it is.

Fragalino · 02/08/2019 20:19

The problem is, comps have not been a resounding success and sadly many dc who would have thrived at gramme have failed in comp, hence progress 8 now but how many dc thrown under bus

Chakano · 02/08/2019 20:23

Bert

Why go for grammar when you are so against. I think the gotcha was pointing out the hypocrisy.
I do know you are not hiding this though, as your previous name you always said this.

TeenTimesTwo · 02/08/2019 20:24

Fragalino The problem is, comps have not been a resounding success and sadly many dc who would have thrived at gramme have failed in comp, hence progress 8 now but how many dc thrown under bus

Source?

BertrandRussell · 02/08/2019 20:24

“sadly many dc who would have thrived at gramme have failed in comp”

Have you got any evidence to back this up?

TeenTimesTwo · 02/08/2019 20:25

Chak If you live in a full grammar area you have to go with it. You aren't given the choice of grammar or comp, you have the choice of grammar or a de facto secondary modern (a school where the top sets have been sliced off).

Doubleraspberry · 02/08/2019 20:27

Surely people realised the 11+ still existed for private school at least?

It doesn’t. Schools run their own selection tests in year 6. Some don’t. They vary in level and content.

Chakano · 02/08/2019 20:28

So even if you don't want your kids to go to grammar taking the 11+ is compulsory Shock I had no idea, I thought you opted in, not out.
It must be soul destroying for those who don't pass, as one whose children would never have passed I'd have moved.

I think they are great for the right child, and agree they should exist, but compulsory testing just because of the area you live in is disgusting.

TeenTimesTwo · 02/08/2019 20:29

You can't argue grammars are good now because they were good for social mobility in the 60s.

You can't argue comps are bad now because they were bad in the 80s when all sorts of weird methods were being tried and everyone was doing everything mixed ability.

You can't argue that boarding schools have woeful pastoral care because of what some were like in the 70s.

People need to argue based on what is happening now.

BertrandRussell · 02/08/2019 20:29

“Why go for grammar when you are so against. I think the gotcha was pointing out the hypocrisy. ”

I live in a wholly selective area. i would accept a charge of hypocrisy if I had sent the child who failed to private school, which I could have, but didn’r. As it was, I worked with the system I was presented with.

TatianaLarina · 02/08/2019 20:30

Private schools (not all) have entrance exams at 11 and 13, still loosely called 11+ and 13+.