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Original poster

Does Grammar School not exist to some people?

669 replies

tippytoesah · 02/08/2019 08:37

Surely it must do?

I've never really discussed schooling before with DH as DC is still so young. But I did recently and mentioned that if he showed promise or wanting to take the 11+, we would support him in any way possible.

He looked at me as if I had two heads and said "What's an 11+? Confused"

He really didn't know it was a thing and had never heard of it. I was shocked and mentioned it to SIL and her friend who also have 0 idea what it is!

I'm not from around here and I grew up in Essex. It was quite a big thing in that county, or at least the area I was in. You either went to a non Christian school which was absolutely terrible, went to a Christian school who were actually half decent or you did the 11+ if you were really bright. It was encouraged and supported.

Does it not even exist in some places then? I will look further into it but DH and close relatives/friends seem to be as clueless as him... maybe it isn't a thing in that part of the county

OP posts:
cocomelon23 · 02/08/2019 17:26

I don't know what a grammar school or 11+ is. I'm in East Anglia.

Teddybear45 · 02/08/2019 17:28

There are some cities where the ‘grammar schools’ are private and the local schools outperform them (both in academics and Oxbridge offers). Other areas where due to popularity the grammar schools’ catchment areas are severely restricted.

bellinisurge · 02/08/2019 17:32

Why did you think grammar schools were everywhere? That stopped being the case in 1977. I started secondary school that year. I was the first year of comprehensive secondary schooling.

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AlpenCrazy · 02/08/2019 17:35

My DC are both at grammars in Kent

Both schools are stuffed full of middle class kids

Mercs Range Rovers and Lexus in the school car parks

The state SS my DS is at used to have a 40%+ intake from private schools - not sure what it is now as it's not published but prob not far off that

Those on FSM a tiny % if any

vs the local secondary moderns which look and feel totally different

MC parents don't want their kids mixing with the hoi polloi so spend years and £££ tutoring to pass 11+

Social mobility my arse

saraclara · 02/08/2019 17:37

I took the 11+ and went to Grammar School. My friend's mum was desperately hoping that she didn't pass, because they couldn't afford the uniform. Actually none of my friends passed. Only two of us from a class of 46 children did.
I remember the day we got our results so vividly. And my absolute horror at the cruelty of it all. At most of my classmates being branded failures. I've been violently opposed to Grammar schools ever since.

Also I lost all my friends within that first term at secondary school. The secondary modern kids soon realised that mixing with a 'Grammar Grub' was social suicide.

BertrandRussell · 02/08/2019 17:44

As I always say on grammar threads (apologies if you have read it before) I live near town with a grammar school and a SM a mile apart. Same very mixed catchment.. 37% PP at the SM. Less than 2% at the grammar. So unless you believe that poor children are inherently thicker than better off ones...

JacquesHammer · 02/08/2019 17:49

The secondary modern kids soon realised that mixing with a 'Grammar Grub' was social suicide

They sound delightful!

converseandjeans · 02/08/2019 17:50

I went to grammar school but it wasn't a big deal back in the 80's. I now live in Bristol which has private or state schools but no grammar schools. Bristol Grammar School exists but is private & with so many private schools it's not going to be as academically selective as a grammar school which is free to attend. They obviously need to fill their spaces to get the money in.

Toddlerteaplease · 02/08/2019 17:52

I didn't realise the 11+ still existed until I discovered mumsnet.

Toddlerteaplease · 02/08/2019 17:52

The local grammar school is an independent school.

converseandjeans · 02/08/2019 17:54

There was no tutoring or coaching back then. You just turned up on the day and took an exam.

BertrandRussell · 02/08/2019 17:55

“The secondary modern kids soon realised that mixing with a 'Grammar Grub' was social suicide.“

And vice versa. My secondary modern child lost all but one of his grammar school friends by Christmas- and it wasn’t his fault. And they played on the same football team!

fromthefloorboardsup · 02/08/2019 17:56

I didn't realise some grammar schools were state schools until I went to uni cause we didn't have them. I assumed they were all private schools.

ineedaholidaynow · 02/08/2019 18:00

The problem is now pupils are tutored to do the 11+, so it will be parents who can afford it, so skewing the figures massively.

Poorer families did have a greater chance of going when everyone had to sit the 11+.

Both my DPs went to grammar school, DM’s parents weren’t poor but they weren’t wealthy.

DH’s parents did not go to grammar school although they were still in the time when everyone sat the 11+. Neither of them were encouraged to do well in it. FIL’s family weren’t very supportive of him in any way. He didn’t like school so wasn’t bothered.

MIL came from a typical poor working class family. She was told not to do well in the exam as ‘grammar school wasn’t for the likes of them and anyway she didn’t need a career as she was only going to get married and have babies’ Shock When she started work she was offered a trainee manager course and her parents refused to let her go for the same reasons!

When DS first went to private school she wasn’t happy and repeated her parents’ argument ‘that it wasn’t for the likes of us’.

saraclara · 02/08/2019 18:13

@JaquesHammer - but that's what happens to a society when you put all eleven year olds (and it was all back then) into a system that brands them as successes or failures at 11 years old.
If you're deemed a failure you're going to feel shit. And that failure is brought home to you every day when you walk down one side of the road to your secondary modern at the end on the left, while the Grammar pupils, in their posh uniforms walk on the other side of the road to their school on the right. No-one would dare walk on the 'wrong' side of the road with their primary school friends.

My friends were ordinary nice kids thrown into a weird situation and sturggling to make sense of it.

JacquesHammer · 02/08/2019 18:16

Just a completely different experience to me.

I went state to private grammar - 9 of us took the exam, only me passed. I certainly didn’t get the impression that made me immediately persona non grata!

Similarly DD went from prep to grammar - and her peers went to a wide range of private, comp and just her to grammar (again 6 out of 8 girls took and only she passed). They’re all still friends.

BertrandRussell · 02/08/2019 18:20

I am very pleased that it is a positive experience for some people.

Madcats · 02/08/2019 18:25

I think Sussex must have abolished them mid-70's too. We had an old secondary modern about 1/2 mile away, but my parents made my brother traipse 20 miles to the nearest decent school.

My other brother was boarding thanks to some sort of Assisted Places or scholarship his London primary encouraged him to apply for in the late 60's.

By the time I was 10, it had become the norm in my bit of Sussex to just go to the "comp". It was rigorously streamed and then streamed again for maths and English. I don't think there was much, if any, crossover in friendship groups.

I was remarking about it the other day, but I only remember one child with asthma (I don't think allergies were a thing at all) ... out of about 90 kids that were in my bit of the school. A couple might have had packed lunches until the meal prices went up to 25p and maybe one or 2 went home to lunch. 90% had 1-2 siblings and 1st marriage parents (can just think of one who had divorced). Sorry that is a bit off topic, but I am just comparing to my daughter's school).

saraclara · 02/08/2019 18:28

I don't know how it works in places that still have Grammar Schools. My experience was back in the 60s. And the whole educational culture of this country was built around the 11+

Taking it was compulsory. It's not like some areas that still have them now, where it's a choice to apply for a place. The success or failure blighted people for life. Secondary modern pupils couldn't take the same exams as Grammar school pupils, so even if they did well, they didn't come out with the right exams to get to university or apply for good jobs. CSEs were pretty meaningless. Only GCEs mattered.

I have friends who beat the system and, despite failing the 11+ managed to get qualifications as adults that led to them having succesful professional jobs. They're my age - mid 60s, and they're STILL angry at what the 11+ system did to them.

alwaysthinkingofsleep · 02/08/2019 18:31

No grammar schools in the NE sadly!

Bubblysqueak · 02/08/2019 18:35

We're in southwest and have lots here.

clottedcreamoverjam · 02/08/2019 18:41

I have no clue what the 11+ is and I am teacher Blush

TatianaLarina · 02/08/2019 18:42

I have no clue what the 11+ is and I am teacher

That does surely deserve some kind of special prize.

JoxerGoesToStuttgart · 02/08/2019 18:53

I have no clue what the 11+ is and I am teacher

In somewhere other than the U.K., right? Otherwise that’s quite terrifying.

TapasForTwo · 02/08/2019 19:26

Where do you live clottedcreamoverjam? Not in the UK I hope.

In my LA I was in the last year that the 11+ was compulsory in 1970.

I had no idea until I joined mumsnet several years ago that the 11+ still existed and that secondary modern schools still existed. Everywhere that I have lived only had comprehensive schools and private grammar schools.