My idea for the primary school day - any good?

[pfrench]

I think schools should start at 8 and finish at 4.30.

Children have lessons until 1.30, with two equal sized breaks for snack and lunch and play. Teachers teach the core subjects of English, maths, and others such as history, geography, and RE in those hours.

The afternoons are taught by specialists. Sports, dance/gymnastics, music, drama, art, design technology and computing. Two chunks of afternoon learning. Older children might have chance to do two lessons of a particular interest or skill in order to specialise/take external exams etc.

Teachers can't leave the school until 4.30 - these are still directed hours. In that time they mark and plan. They also have the opportunity to take children out for pre-learn, or intervention lessons. They lose out on some of the above stuff if this happens, but that's what happens in lots of schools anyway.

At 4.30 there could still be an after school club for those who need it, but everyone eats breakfast at school. That's part of primary school learning - communal eating. Also at 4.30 onwards there could be more specialist club type interests run, or even Cubs/Brownies/Scouts run from the school too.

Children go home at 4.30 or 6pm having had good subject teaching by teachers and by specialists. The focus on the arts and sports in the afternoon encourages interests in those things for continuing outside school. If things like extra dance lessons or Scouts or whatever ran from 5 - 6pm, that would also free up evening time at home.

Teachers focus properly on the stuff they are confident in. They can choose to teach some of the afternoon subjects if they want/are specialists. They get their marking and planning done in the school day, they take less work home and are more on it for the next day.

Parents don't have to worry about childcare around school hours so much. Families get their evenings freed up a bit.

What do you reckon? Should I be Secretary of State for Education?

@TeapotofTerror they only have one standardised test throughout their schooling, and little to no homework. Emphasis is put on playtime and children (and teachers!) aren't pressured by constant assessments.

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/finland-education-system-schools-model-superior-us-helsinki-children-a8147426.html

(a) that's a 30% increase in teaching time. That's a lot of new teaching jobs and a lot of money to be found.

(b) my ADD child can just about cope with a 6.5 hour day in mainstream school - though it's a bit touch-and-go in the afternoon as 5 hours is around about his coping limit before things start to fall apart. Bumping it up to 8.5 hours would be terrible for him and I an sure lots of others.

Our kids school day is 8.40 to 4.30, lessons start at 8.50. That’s from reception.
The teachers say there’s still not enough class time to teach their subjects properly. My daughter is required to take three languages (I’d be happier if they taught her one she could actually speak) which means two lessons for two languages each then one for the third per week - not enough, games three times a week, English twice a week... then the sciences, maths, history, geography art music drama DT computer science RE, personal development...I don’t know how the schools fit it in now.
I think scraping homework for primary kids would be a huge improvement and won’t cost any money.

Teachers would have to get up insanely early as most need to be in an hour before school starts.

Please don't be secretary of state for education.

I think kids need time to relax after school and do what they want. What you described is too much for young kids. Kids learn a lot more in unstructured self guided play, so having all that extra would actually be detrimental to their education.

All teachers are specialists. I don't understand why you are speaking of them as two distinct types of people. Primary teachers have a specialist subject but are expected to teach everything.

Having separate teachers for each subject doesn't work for younger children.

That day is too long for kids. It doesn't matter if they get an extra break. There's only so much information they can retain in one day.

Fuck no

Sounds like you either have a very poor understanding of what a teacher's job actually entails, or have very little respect for them. Maybe both.

I'm a teacher and I like the sound of this except for the 8am start. Start at 9 and I think it would be great. Class teachers wouldn't be working any more hours, they would work fewer and other people could come in with fresh energy and passion for the late afternoon activities. If only education had a magic pot of money we could do so much that would be really interesting.

These type of threads bring out the worst examples of NIMBYism with an inability to see the bigger picture.

Millions of working parents (particularly lone parents) are struggling to make ends meet, in large part due to the scarcity and cost of childcare.
Part time work simply does not pay enough for most and often leaves parents no better off (or worse off) than not working at all.

Wrap around care isn't about supporting those ball breaking career parents who can't be arsed to spend time with their kids (that much derided MN stereotype).

It's about lifting parents (and children) out of poverty. It's about supporting children from deprived backgrounds to give them a fighting chance.

Every time I read threads like this I'm grateful that dd goes to a state school where teachers visibly see their role as supporting children as a whole.
Where they don't dole out that lazy stereotype 'school isn't childcare" .
Where they do their best to support children (eg through homework or extra learning support before or after school) and take pride in seeing struggling children flourish.
And where parents don't just see school from their own perspective (eg parents agree with kids not being streamed) but value a school that helps all children achieve.

Every time I read threads like this I'm grateful that dd goes to a state school where teachers visibly see their role as supporting children as a whole.
Where they don't dole out that lazy stereotype 'school isn't childcare"

I care very deeply about my class of children. I can maintain the opinion that school isn’t childcare and care massively about the children. I am there to teach the children, not babysit them. I want them to strive and excel in their education and emotional wellbeing but schools cannot be held accountable for poor wraparound care and families living in poverty. Schools have no money. We have to put the children’s education first because that is our responsibility.

Being - my post really wasn't intended to bash teachers or schools (which I agree are woefully underfunded). Just that I appreciate teachers who tailor their teaching to take account of children's circumstances.

I think many posters on this thread don't realise that wrap around care means the difference between being able to pay rent and not, for the millions living in poverty.
I didn't realise for example that part time work really isn't enough until I saw a piece on the news last night.

I think many posters on this thread don't realise that wrap around care means the difference between being able to pay rent and not, for the millions living in poverty.

Schools can’t offer this for free though. There is no funding for this so parents have to pay. A lot of schools already offer this service or have a company that comes in to do it. Extending the school day by 2 hours is not the solution.

This is perfect for work parents who work 9-4. But what about the children, teachers, school staff, parents who don't work those hours. Where is the money coming from to find this?

Many parents actually enjoy spending time with their children.

Breakfast is often the only meal we have as a family so I wouldn't want to miss that.

I also agree with a lot of the comments about the pressures on school funding and teachers.

Then campaign for better childcare provisions, grants, discounts etc. or increase funding for schools so they can afford to offer after school clubs,summer clubs etc.

Expecting schools to do everything is not the way. Teachers already spend their own money on resources, feed kids, act as counsellors and social workers, liaise with police,SS and medical professionals. Hell there have even been times when we made cups of tea for certain kids at the demand of parents.(specific brand,because the staff room one wasn't good enough). And ofc, they teach.

How much more should they do? How many more hats should they wear while also providing a good education?

@dameofdilemma by wanting the school to take on before/after school care hours you’re essentially expecting it to be a childcare facility. Which is just isn’t.

That’s why before and after school care exists separately to the school day.

Not sure why you think people don’t get that.

I agree @IvanaPee, I work full time and as much as it would suit me personally School/Education isn't childcare.

School buildings should generally be better utilised to offer community services, including wrap around care and holiday care. However it shouldn’t be expected that the school arrange this and it shouldn’t be something compulsory for pupils or which will cost the school money from their budget.

I don't think that's enough time on English and Maths. People already can't spell don't make it worse. Maybe add languages and a literature class in the afternoons and it might be better

Where will the money come from? AND I have a son with special needs I work in a school (admin) because the hours allow me to be at home for my son. I earn a pittance which the school can barely afford to pay anyway. It is, in my opinion, a ridiculous idea. Schools should not be replacing parents and family life. Table manners, social skills etc should be taught at home and continued at school. If you want school to bring up your children for you then send them to boarding school.

I think many posters on this thread don't realise that wrap around care means the difference between being able to pay rent and not, for the millions living in poverty.

This thread wasn’t about wrap around care though, it was about extending the school week to 42.5 hours a week on a compulsory basis for children as young as 4, 5 and 6. I don’t want my children having to cope with a school week that is longer than many full time jobs because some folk struggle with childcare. I do agree affordable childcare is much needed especially in areas of low income but that isn’t what this thread is talking about.