My idea for the primary school day - any good?

[pfrench]

I think schools should start at 8 and finish at 4.30.

Children have lessons until 1.30, with two equal sized breaks for snack and lunch and play. Teachers teach the core subjects of English, maths, and others such as history, geography, and RE in those hours.

The afternoons are taught by specialists. Sports, dance/gymnastics, music, drama, art, design technology and computing. Two chunks of afternoon learning. Older children might have chance to do two lessons of a particular interest or skill in order to specialise/take external exams etc.

Teachers can't leave the school until 4.30 - these are still directed hours. In that time they mark and plan. They also have the opportunity to take children out for pre-learn, or intervention lessons. They lose out on some of the above stuff if this happens, but that's what happens in lots of schools anyway.

At 4.30 there could still be an after school club for those who need it, but everyone eats breakfast at school. That's part of primary school learning - communal eating. Also at 4.30 onwards there could be more specialist club type interests run, or even Cubs/Brownies/Scouts run from the school too.

Children go home at 4.30 or 6pm having had good subject teaching by teachers and by specialists. The focus on the arts and sports in the afternoon encourages interests in those things for continuing outside school. If things like extra dance lessons or Scouts or whatever ran from 5 - 6pm, that would also free up evening time at home.

Teachers focus properly on the stuff they are confident in. They can choose to teach some of the afternoon subjects if they want/are specialists. They get their marking and planning done in the school day, they take less work home and are more on it for the next day.

Parents don't have to worry about childcare around school hours so much. Families get their evenings freed up a bit.

What do you reckon? Should I be Secretary of State for Education?

OP you are pretty much describing my DCs school day - it's a prep school - suits them v well, they love being at school, do loads of sports in the afternoon and large variety of activities as well as have specialist teaching etc. They love breakfast club at school as far greater variety of food than they get at home including many hot options. The teachers generally seem much happier than state school teachers I know as well.

Works for me as well because I can either pick up at 4.30 if I'm working from home or 6pm if I'm in the office.

I've never understood why state school days are so short and the wraparound care is generally poor. It was one of the reasons I went private in the first place was because the state school option didn't offer before/after school care and had a v short day - hopeless for working parents, especially now I'm a single parent I would really struggle with the short days and juggling work.

The length of the day isn’t an issue, mine went to breakfast club at 7.30, then school and after school clubs until 6 but you haven’t said which public services will be cut to pay for this?

laburnumtree - not all private schools have a longer day. Likewise not all state schools have no wrap around care.

FWIW both my (state) school and dd's old (private) one had similar times available when you took breakfast and after school club into account.

@Aragog yes, good point. I don't know the answer but I just think there must be a better way to support parents (particularly women) in being able to spend time with their children and have a meaningful (if that's what they want) career.

God no, I’d barely see my son if that was the case

Nope!

I like having breakfast with my children, dropping them to school at 8.40am & picking them up at 3.15pm.

I also like that my dd goes to a dance club that has nothing to do with school. She's made friendships their that keep her going through all the school classroom drama.

It's great that the school offers breakfast club & after school club & I know that helps working parents but on the odd ocassion mine have done that they're pretty tired & just want to chill at home rather say a dog walk or a play on the beach etc. It takes away family time.

And presumably teachers will be paid more given that their directed hours will be two hours a day longer.

Ooh. As a non-specialist teacher I'd get every afternoon off!

This is what happens at my children’s school except the specialised activities are only from 3-4.30. It’s compulsory they stay until 4.30 and they do activities such as dance, karate, sports and music all taught by specialised people, not the teachers x

I've never understood why state school days are so short and the wraparound care is generally poor.

What, you seriously can’t think if a reason why schools that are funded by central government might not have the same provision as schools funded from parent fees? You don’t sound very bright.

My DC prep school does do this.

I’m sure this would be a fantastic way to solve your childcare issues op, and also take away the faff of having to take them to activities. And no expense to you at all

No, my two find the school week tiring as it is and I don’t want to be peeking them from bed at 6.30 to be at school for 9.

What schools need are children ready to learn. Who listen and work hard. They don’t need to be the best in the class, but they need a good work ethic.

This, and it’s my belief this is best achieved by good home routines, proper rest, stable sleep patterns, good nutrition, good family relationships and a calm home life. My kids should have choice over extra curricular activities they want to be involved in and I think it’s of benefit that some of those happen away from school as a balance for some of the classroom nonsense that goes on.

Not farming them out the door to a learning environment from 8 til 4.30, which is longer than my 9-5 working day.

Schools are primarily there to meet children’s learning needs, not to make life easier for parents. The length of school day, break times, holidays, etc should be suited to their needs first and foremost. I don’t have any issue, for example, about teachers having long summer holidays because my kids need a decent break from formal learning - teachers holidays are a natural consequence of not treating kids like mini workers, which is fine by me. It’s not the schools responsiblity to raise my children and to provide specialist instruction in dance or sports or music, it’s mine. It’s great that schools do support with that where they can but it’s my responsibility to feed, clothe, entertain and develop my children.

Sorry, peeling them from bed to be at school at 8.

You just want longer free childcare don't you?

With the added benefit of the school feeding your kid AND providing extra curriculars.

All paid for by ...whom? With what?

I like playing this "if I ran a school" game. Obviously money is not an issue!
I like the basis of the OP but would have class sizes cut in half and them doing the academic lessons. The remaining 'half classes' join together to do PE, drama etc. Then in the afternoon they switch over. The following week they change places.
In secondary school - PE, science, home ec would always be a double lesson and reduce the number of sessions accordingly.
No 'school shoes'.

Too long for little ones - maybe key stage two - but only given the option.

Well, DD's school has wrap around care from 7:30am to 5:45pm. It's 4 form entry Reception to Y6, so for every class to have every afternoon taught by specialist would mean a huge number of extra teachers. Our budget doesn't stretch to A4 copier paper at the end of the year.

Currently, they do have a specialist teacher for each of PE, music and MFL. So one day a week, they do those subjects all afternoon and their teacher gets PPA time.

I do however think that good quality wraparound and holiday care is key to helping get people back into work that want/need to. Especially for under 5s in nursery and reception, and older tweens.

If anything it could do with being later start.

That’s awful.

I think a mass breakfast is a good idea to ensure all children eat but that should be at 9am along with assembly/mass.

I would change a lot of the curriculum though, I really feel first aid and general life skills should be taught in primary. Things like how to deal with colds/flu and the importance of health and wellbeing.

I don’t really see the point of learning about the Egyptians etc while so young.

Love the previous posters saying that if school started at 8, teachers would be in at 7. I'm in by 7 every day to start at 8.50!

No. Just no.

Abroad they do more of the specialised teaching and increased planning and prep time though - maybe that's why so many British teachers leave the country or leave the profession.

Or, do as the Finnish do, start school at 9.45am and finish at 2.45pm. Oh and they only have to go to school between the age of 7-16, yet they still have the best education system in the world.

That sounds like an ideal scenario to me but difficult to organise on a practical / financial level.

Well, as @laburnumtree said, you have pretty much described a day at a traditional prep school (throw in Saturdays as well).

Works very well and my DC certainly isn't exhausted- the pace is slower, more faffing around climbing trees etc (I teach in state primary so can comment).

So, OP, if you can persuade BoJo to up per-pupil funding to 22k per annum we can definitely do it.

Im a teacher and I’m in at 7 for an 8:45 start.

I am more productive in the morning. Starting earlier wouldn’t bother me but then also finishing later would kill me off. I would never see my DD as she doesn’t go to my school (quite deliberately).

The main issue is the complete lack of funding for any of that. Schools barely have enough money for a teacher per 30 children. No chance for money for extra ‘specialist’ teachers.

My final point - that I will mention on here because otherwise I’ll be here all day - is that school is not a childcare provider. It’s an education provider. If you aren’t willing to pay for your child’s wrap-around care, don’t have children. If you have an issue with the education your child’s school is providing, complain to your local government because it’ll 99% to do with the lack of funding in place to teach to the the Conservatives’ ridiculous standards.