My idea for the primary school day - any good?

[pfrench]

I think schools should start at 8 and finish at 4.30.

Children have lessons until 1.30, with two equal sized breaks for snack and lunch and play. Teachers teach the core subjects of English, maths, and others such as history, geography, and RE in those hours.

The afternoons are taught by specialists. Sports, dance/gymnastics, music, drama, art, design technology and computing. Two chunks of afternoon learning. Older children might have chance to do two lessons of a particular interest or skill in order to specialise/take external exams etc.

Teachers can't leave the school until 4.30 - these are still directed hours. In that time they mark and plan. They also have the opportunity to take children out for pre-learn, or intervention lessons. They lose out on some of the above stuff if this happens, but that's what happens in lots of schools anyway.

At 4.30 there could still be an after school club for those who need it, but everyone eats breakfast at school. That's part of primary school learning - communal eating. Also at 4.30 onwards there could be more specialist club type interests run, or even Cubs/Brownies/Scouts run from the school too.

Children go home at 4.30 or 6pm having had good subject teaching by teachers and by specialists. The focus on the arts and sports in the afternoon encourages interests in those things for continuing outside school. If things like extra dance lessons or Scouts or whatever ran from 5 - 6pm, that would also free up evening time at home.

Teachers focus properly on the stuff they are confident in. They can choose to teach some of the afternoon subjects if they want/are specialists. They get their marking and planning done in the school day, they take less work home and are more on it for the next day.

Parents don't have to worry about childcare around school hours so much. Families get their evenings freed up a bit.

What do you reckon? Should I be Secretary of State for Education?

Every primary age child in the country with a specialist teacher in the afternoon? This requires DOUBLING the primary teachers available. Yes we could do with far more teachers in schools, and each teacher having a smaller load, but the funding doesn’t exist, and the personnel don’t exist, even to increase the number of teachers in each school by ONE.

Daft idea, OP.

This whole idea is totally No Go. If that’s what you want for your children, source it and pay for it yourself. Your choice. Everyone else is likely to make different choices

Eating breakfast together in school? What happens to personal choice, tastes, diets, dietary needs and timing. Most of it will go in the bin most days, an everyone will be hungry. Just No

You’d also find a lot of brownie and cub packs folding because the staff that run them would still be sitting in staff meetings at school when they start

This while plan is totally impractical, and it wouldn’t work even if we could somehow magically double the budget for teachers pay AND source a few hundred thousand additional part time specialist teachets

Personally id love to make sure my DC were in school eating breakfast by 8. Would mean I had no issues with getting them there while panicking about being late for work (our breakfast club doesn't open until 8:20).
Unfortunately I can see how it just wouldn't work- all previously mentioned by pp's.

Haven’t you posted this before?

I think it sounds great. For all those saying what a long day etc. Millions of children with working parents do days as long/longer with nursery or childminders from 6 months old and seek to cope just fine. Somethings got to give eventually as school is so out of balance with working hours (and let’s face it most parents work). Being a SAHM isn’t a viable option for everyone and particularly when they start school it’s often an opportunity for people to get back to work. I’d vote for you!

I suppose it would be easier to fit all the extras in that schools are expected to teach now, from toilet training to healthy eating to business and financial acumen and all the rest.
But you could simplify everything and make all state schools boarding during the week. Then parents get them back at weekends. If they want them.

I just ROFLcoptered so much I turned myself inside out.

Ds did two after school clubs until 4pm last term,five days a week until that time and he'd be exhausted tbh.Its a no from me.

Far too long a day.
Also many schools don't currently have enough money for existing staff/electricity/handsoap/toilet roll so not sure where the money for specialists is coming from. Or the actual specialists - nobody wants to teach, teachers are leaving in their droves so good luck finding specialists.
One of the very few perks of teaching is sometimes being able to choose my hours out of 9-3 so on a sunny day I can pick my kids up early from the childminder, take them to the park and do my work when they're in bed. And if I need an emergency dentist/doctor/optician appt during term time this flexibility means that is possible. If 7-4.30 term time was enforced, all of that becomes impossible.
Also I like my kids. On my day off I like to see them when they finish at 3!

I agree with pretty much everything else posted.

On top of that I have an autistic son just about managing in a very good mainstream primary. 9 to 2.40 (he has a slightly shortened day) is just about his limit. He can cope (just) with having a specialist teacher in for PE but couldn’t cope with the level of change your proposing.

For a lot of children the good thing in primary is the consistency of staff

That sounds like just making the day suit patents, not focussed on the children or school staff at all. Nonsense.

I think an option of a breakfast club and after school club on site which parents pay for can work. personally I feel my kids can be very tied at the end of a school day and love to get to home and relax in their own environment.

Where I grew up (North America) and where I live now (Asia), school day starts at 8/8:30 from primary. Didn’t realise British schools start at 9! That’s so inconvenient for working parents.

Millions of children with working parents do days as long/longer with nursery or childminders from 6 months old and seem
to cope just fine.

There is a world of difference between being in nursery or a childminder and at school.

Who is going to pay for this?

What qualifications do the specialist tutors have, and who pays for them? Will they be paid at teacher rate, or specialist rates?

Also keep in mind that we currently have a teacher shortage for the system we do have.

If teachers from the morning are then also teaching the specialist subject - when do they do their planning and prep, and meeting time?

Where is the space for everyone to eat breakfast in school at the same time? We already have lunch in sittings, and can struggle to get them all through in time.

Where is the space for all the morning teachers to do their planning and prep at the same time?

Why not focus on better childcare options before and after school, open to all at a good value? Or on other work places being more parent friendly and offering more flexi hours, etc?

edgeofheaven It varies between schools. My infants is 8:40am to 3:20pm, with wrap around care available from 8am - 6pm; DD's was 8:30am - 3:30pm, and 3:45pm in juniors, with similar child care options.

Just no. Simple

Kids and teachers are already expected to do so much already- there is no way I want my primary aged DC having longer days. Your idea comes across to me as a way to help working parents around childcare.

I would rather see employers and the government support working parents by being more flexible around families - is our economy so inflexible that we can't look more at accommodating part-time term time working? Do we need the full 6 weeks in the summer or does it make more sense to have four weeks and add more days to other breaks? I know so many talented, successful women who have decided not to return to work because it just doesn't make financial sense or work for the family. That can't be good for the economy.

The world has changed so much since I was at school in the 80s yet we can't seem to make this global technological world help parents get the right balance with work and family.

Nope. This is a day centred around working parents instead of learning children.

I can just imagine the shitstorm this would cause in my daughter's school which is 2 form entry. Every afternoon they'd have to pay for 14 specialist teachers to deliver 'arts' and 'sports' activities. This is on top of the wages for teachers and teaching assistants.

Then there's the matter of capacity, how on earth would you suggest managing a breakfast for more than 840 children in a canteen with a quarter of that capacity?

That's easy to manage at lunchtime when you can plan rolling slots so different years take lunch at different times by trying to organise all of that in the morning too would make half the day redundant...and also increase the working budget of the canteen because of more staff, more food etc.

Unless your grand plan means the classrooms become breakfast rooms...in that case does that then also make the teachers food supervisors and cleaners?

The other school in our area has 3 form entry, I can only imagine how this would land there. The rotating of available space is a key feature in most schools now where space is at a premium.

Then it comes to the children. If you have a child that thrives in 'real' learning e.g. maths and english but dreads anything arts or sports related they are going to dread every single afternoon. On the flipside children who thrive in creative work/sports but struggle academically are going to find every single morning torture. At least currently the learning is woven throughout the curriculum so creating a poster about a book you're reading (for example) links themes and breaks up the learning.

Please don't tell me this is something that Gavin Williams has actually floated as an idea!

No!

Do we need the full 6 weeks in the summer or does it make more sense to have four weeks

The other side of this is an interesting one though, as it has been considered a few times.

Imagine you work in a non school based environment such as an office. The office always needs at least x number of staff to man it. At present most of these people want 1-2 weeks off in July/August. They have 6 weeks to play with, to fit everyone in. Now reduce that to 4 weeks and the problem is much worse.

The only other holiday it'd be worth adding to is May half term.

Only those people earning a higher income are bothered about extra time in October, Christmas, February or Easter generally - those who can afford a long haul holiday. Lets face it - a nice sunny hot holiday in February isn't going to happen in the Uk or closer parts of Europe after all!