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Why- WHY- aren't women involved in the design of the items they use???

162 replies

rosepoet · 15/07/2019 20:40

I'm barely 5ft 3"...so why do fridgefreezers have the fridge at the top? So that the top shelves are hard to reach? Why do induction cookers have 'touch controls' - guaranteed to turn off/malfunction, when you...you know, COOK with them and the pan boils over, or you have wet fingers? Why are kitchen cabinets designed for giants? Why do they sell soup stored on the top shelves in super markets- turning into soup bombs! Why? Because they haven't bothered to consult women, that's why! If you know of any brands of fridge freezers with the fridge on the bottom, please let me know...!

OP posts:
TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince · 16/07/2019 19:34

I don’t find any of this. I’m tall, my problems are: prams being too low so giving me backache, trousers being too short, airplane seats having no leg room, car headrests being too low. I could go on.

This issue is ergonomics and designing for the middle of a populations measurements.

Average woman approx 5ft 4, average man 5ft 10. Anyone outside these will struggle to use stuff

MIdgebabe · 16/07/2019 20:35

Service station near Glasgow has the best sanitary bins. Narrow tube. So takes less space. You float your hand over and it glides up and open with a huge mouth. SO if you have big waste, it still goes in really easy.

amicissimma · 16/07/2019 22:31

I'm fortunate to be 'average' height so I don't have problems with heights of things. Presumably there are as many men being disadvantaged at having to deal with things designed for shorter people as there are women disadvantaged by things designed for taller people.

The problem with wanting plane seats and toilet cubicles etc to be larger (which, in my heart, I do too) is that then there will be fewer in any given space so the cost will go up - either in money or in waiting time.

My bugbear is clothes. Why can't women have useable pockets? If they don't want to spoil the line they don't have to put things in them, same as for men, but why can't we have the choice?

And sizes: why on earth are smaller sizes also shorter? I'm an 8/10 and 5'7"; my friend is size 20 and 5'2". The larger size allows for more material to go round but why do I have to have draughty ankles or a chilly waist (and, believe me, my tummy is not a sight for public view) while she trips over her trouser legs or has a load of material around her waist.

And the gusset on knickers: on mine it starts about 1/3 of the way along the relevant part, why doesn't it start at the front?

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

SoupDragon · 16/07/2019 22:46

overhead bins on aircraft. I'm 5 foot 1 and a half and on some I can't physically reach the bins

To be fair, if they made them so you could reach, no one could stand up 😂

ErrolTheDragon · 16/07/2019 22:55

why on earth are smaller sizes also shorter?

Because shorter people tend to be smaller. Fat apart, it's simply a matter of proportion.

EBearhug · 17/07/2019 01:23

it would be interesting to note of the women going into engineering what percentages come from what backgrounds, and how we compare in take up rates to women in countries similar in culture to ours.

There is plenty of data available online. It is a cultural problem, one faced mainly by countries in northern Europe, USA, Canada, Australia. Reasons for take up in other countries varies - in some count

EBearhug · 17/07/2019 01:47

...Reasons for take up in other countries varies - in some countries, STEM roles may be seen as clean work, when the alternatives are housework or agriculture, because traditional professions are still closed off to women. It can aso be nuanced - while there were a lot of women in engineering in the USSR, one source I read (which i'm not checking at this time of night,) claimed women were more likely to be in teaching and supporting roles, while men were still dominating the hans-on engineering work.

Here, women are more likely to be in scientific fields like psychology, biology, medicine, and less so in tech, engineering, physics. If you break that down, at least in IT, women are more likely to be found in certain roles than others. Business analysis, user experience, less systems administration, network engineering. I am willing to bet that there are similar differences when you break down other areas into narrowerer specialisms.

And all of those factors and more add up to why the datasets we use are so often based on men. Datasets need updating every now and then anyway - look at how long it's taken for dress sizes to have changed since off-the-peg clothing was introduced (as if there's any standardisation between shops in any case.) There's a cost to changing standards, when you've got machines set up for particular measurements.

I think things are changing slowly. Car seats are often adjustable up and down as well as backwards and forwards these days. Still not good for many of us, but better than 20 or more years ago. Likewise, it's possible to get work desks which can be moved up and down. There's always going to be a pay-off between made-to-measure measure and mass-produced, though.

I agree we need more diverse teams in engineering and technology. More diversity brings more perspectives, and it's better for everyone in the end. We appear to be a long way off it, despite all the effort many companies are making to encourage more women.

MiniMum97 · 17/07/2019 01:58

You think that's bad. For years medications have not been being tested on women!....

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/apr/30/fda-clinical-trials-gender-gap-epa-nih-institute-of-medicine-cardiovascular-disease

BarbaraofSeville · 17/07/2019 05:50

One reason that medication is not tested on women is that you have to exclude to 100% the chances of a woman becoming pregnant throughout the trial for ethical reasons.

This limits the potential pool of subjects to women who are post menopausal, or have been sterilised or had hystorectomies, we have a drug test centre locally and I have seen adverts for women meeting this criteria. By definition this group of women are likely to be older than average so may fail on other health grounds.

Not planning to become pregnant, not in a relationship or even being gay is not sufficient because there will be women like this who may end up pregnant during the trial and at best you have to stop using your subjects and at worst you have potentially risked the health of an unborn child (plus breaking ethics/licencing rules).

lljkk · 17/07/2019 06:11

I'm 5'8". Don't have these problems. And I like pink.
I buy "bloke" clothes to get pockets, fair enough.
Bloke clothes are often fine.
6'6" tall guy I know has had had interesting time buying a bicycle that fits.

Did anyone see the Bear Grylls + Warwick Davis programme other night, including climbing in Lake District? WD quipped that the only climbing he ever did before involved awkward kitchens. I did that as a kid, too. :)

Why- WHY- aren't women involved in the design of the items they use???
Suenahmi · 17/07/2019 06:25

I'm 5.9. I agree that the average height of most of the world is designed for taller people. I grew up hating my height ams feeling unfeminine with my height, large 'man' hands and my huge feet. The idea that women 'should' be small and petite and men 'should' be tall and broad harms all of us that do not fit the norm or average. As a tall women, it really affected my self esteem. And still does to some extent. Clothes do not fit well bwcause i am tall and slim. Legs and arms are too short..the waist on a dress never sit properly. Fitted shirts/dresses with darts to accommodate the bust are never in the right place. Coats typically belt up as more of an empire line than on my waist. Mass production means nothing ever fits anyone properly.

But even with all of that, i am still very aware that the world is a mans world on terms of design and function. What we need is more recognition that people come in all shaoes and sizes.

timeforakinderworld · 17/07/2019 06:45

I find top of kitchen cabinets a nightmare.

True but there's not much you can do about that. I would rather have kitchen cupboards which are too tall for me to reach (and use them for occasional storage) than empty space. I have a collapsible step stool which is very handy!

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