Why- WHY- aren't women involved in the design of the items they use???

[rosepoet]

I'm barely 5ft 3"...so why do fridgefreezers have the fridge at the top? So that the top shelves are hard to reach? Why do induction cookers have 'touch controls' - guaranteed to turn off/malfunction, when you...you know, COOK with them and the pan boils over, or you have wet fingers? Why are kitchen cabinets designed for giants? Why do they sell soup stored on the top shelves in super markets- turning into soup bombs! Why? Because they haven't bothered to consult women, that's why! If you know of any brands of fridge freezers with the fridge on the bottom, please let me know...!

But then it’s interesting that all these things the OP is classing as “women things” are kitchen/cooking related. Surely we’re trying to get away from the idea that the kitchen is the woman’s domain? So shouldn’t it be comfortable/accessible for both women and men? With things like fridge freezers you can buy the right size height for you, they come in a range of sizes. I find kitchen counters the right height but I am 5ft8. Although I don’t see that as hugely tall!

I think it’s a tricky area. Take for example a pp’s suggestion of power tools for smaller hands. It’s a good one and i’ve had the same issue. But...if someone brought out a range of women’s tools designed for “dainty hands” people would be in uproar! So many people would just see it as patronising. I think it would actually be a difficult sell.

Why do you assume that there are no women designing these appliances OP?

Incidentally, I assume the fridge is on the top because hot air rises and cool air sinks so it is cheaper to maintain the appropriate appliance temperatures with the warmest part at the top.

I like Marsha’s post about airplane seats. Ha! I wonder why they are so small...
Barbara, so true!
Everything to do with supermarkets has no consideration for the average person or the world, the trolleys are ridiculous in size and shape (and a nightmare for maxi dresses/skirts), shelves displays are quite random there’s no rhythm or logic, and when are they going to stop selling miniature products and sachet products and all the rest of the individually wrapped items and so on.
One of my builders once told me that he fits the bathroom sinks at c**k height - his height and he is a tall chap.

Oh yes, toilet cubicles. They need to be big enough for you to manouevre into with a handbag, a coat, several shopping bags and possibly a toddler or two as well.

So why do they make the cubicles so short and narrow that there is almost no gap between the open toilet door and the toilet for you to squeeze everything in? And probably no hook for you to hang stuff on either.

As for the sinks and taps - they are designed so the whole surface is awash with water so you have nowhere to put anything while washing your hands.

And don't get me started about the ones with a sensor flush that goes off if you so much as twitch while you are sitting there doing minding your own business. (Kings Cross station loos are the worst for this). Not all that keen on the flushes where you have to press a button in a recess either. Difficult to operate for small children and those with long fingernails.

That’s a shirt person thing. I would fucking hate to have a low down fridge. Who wants to bend down all the time?

I think that if manufacturers start making items for tall people and items for short people then we will end up with people complaining that it's sexist as the petite version will be used primarily by women.

Items like cars and fridges are often used by more than one person so do you go with comfort of the taller or shorter person? Capacity of white goods is a selling point so I'm not sure that there would be demand for fridge freezers that are in between under counter and full size.

The stuff like car safety is a serious issue and it's surprising that there's no solution to this like being able to adjust seats (up and down?) Or seatbelts easily for petite adult passengers.(post car seat but not fully grown kids will also have this problem)

Asta19, I did not have the courage to write it earlier, but yes, starting to design specifically for women would bring quite a heated discussion.

Cars are terrible for this. My car was designed with supposed features for small people. The problem is they have obviously not got a single small person to test it out! You can lift the seat, great...problem is when I lift the seat high enough for me to be able to see out the windscreen, my knees are now bashing off the bottom of the steering wheel, no problem I can move the steering wheel up too, except now it’s blocking my view out the front of the windscreen and I’m back to square one.

The consequences eg cars are non trivial though.

Threads like this even with women saying, too much bother to change the status quo and men might complain, depressing.

We don't always help ourselves though, maxi dresses and long fingernails are not practical in many situations and both are completely optional.

Car crashe condequences for pg women is something the manufacturers are keeping as far away from as possible.

There must be a middle ground where design isn't so skewed to one sex that the other one is so much more likely to die. It's rubbish, tbh.

The chairs in the meeting room at my work were designed for men.

I'm 5ft 3 and my feet don't touch the ground when I sit with my back against the backrest. They dangle like a small childs [unprofessional]

Or I have to sit on the edge of the seat [uncomfortable]

Expletive...?
It's women's fault, because fashion?

I don't think womens much higher rate of death in low collision car in incidents is because of dresses and nails, do you? Really???

No we don't help ourselves. Because when women say, this is rubbish, this is dangerous, there's always a woman ready to say oh well women are so frivolous, they get what's coming to them, really.

They are designed for average height. Not of a man, a person. It’s a short person thing. I’m short btw

I am short (just under 5' 4") but I don't have an issue with my fridge freezer. Parking my car on the other hand is much harder for me than my husband because I have to judge where the bonnet ends whereas he can see it.
When I collected our new car, salesman told me how easy it was to park because of the shape of the bonnet. I said I couldn't see it, he told me how to raise the seat. I told him that I had done that already, he checked the seat position then leaned down to get to my eyeline and was amazed that I was telling the truth and the bonnet could not be seen.
And 5'5" is now the average height of a woman in the UK according to Wikipedia - I used to be slightly above average and now I am slightly below.
And before people get offended that women can't park I am only pointing out that I have to judge it whereas DH doesn't have to.

It is a woman thing and I say that as a 5'11" woman.

Tall women have other problems - only being able to wear about 0.2% of trousers ever made for a start. My personal bugbear is bicycles--women have different body geometry to men (long legs and short torso). Womens' geometry bikes only fit women up to about 5'6". I am a very keen cyclist and I have never had a bike that fit me properly. Buggies that are too low (MacLaren I'm looking at you-and also for clearly assuming men will never push it).

The point is that the default in design is for men. There must be a way of designing a kitchenor at least giving options to adaptthat suits both taller people (more likely to be men) and shorter people (more likely to be women). I have a height adjustable desk at work, why not at home? Why can't you choose how your fridge is configured--thus would be useful if you had poor mobility too.

Just make stuff for people of all shapes and heights.

As a 6’ woman I generally can’t buy the clothes I want - the very limited ‘tall’ ranges are obviously designed on the whole by shorter people as the waists aren’t repositioned/sleeves not long enough etc. & all the cool clothes aren’t made in tall sizes.

I find most sinks and worktops are annoyingly low and cause backache, most cars don’t have seats that go far back enough or I am so close to the car roof I couldn’t for example have sunglasses on my head & my visibility is often obscured by the design of the car, beds with an ‘end’ are uncomfortable as my feet and ankles hurt from being jammed up against the foot board, my knees are rammed up against the front of the seat in front on aeroplanes. I feel like the world is designed for short people by short people with no regard for anyone else!

The slight advantage of being able to reach the top shelf of the fridge isn’t really much compensation (& my 5’ nothing Aunt has always just had a sturdy pair of wooden steps in the kitchen - they look lovely, she can reach everything- problem solved!).

Totally with you on the induction hob though - although I don’t get the gender relevance, it’s mostly DH, who does 90% of the cooking in our house who swears at the hob..

Andmybirds, yes, and tables are too high, i feel like a little kid!

Things don't fit right.

I'm disabled as well, not awheelchair user but mobility is hampered, this adds another layer of stuff just not fitting right, not being easy!
World is built for healthy, able bodied, youngish, unencumbered man, is bottom line. Step outside that and things are just not quite comfy. But of course few notice as they've never known another way!
I went to asia 2 weeks work once ok omg everything was my size, it fitted, i felt so much more comfy! A revelation :)

I'm 5ft 5 so pretty average for a woman and haven't noticed any real issues with things being too high for me. I only get annoyed at charity shops with double clothes rails and the size 8 on the top one, surely people wearing smaller sizes are more likely to be shorter too?

I'm 5'7'' and I can't see the bonnet, but all my height is in my legs - DP and I are the same height but my inside leg measurement is about 3 inches more than his.

Next time I go out in the car, I'm going to try raising the seat as I don't know if it's high or low.

I do put unopened foods on the top shelf of my fridge and foods that need eating soon near the bottom, but that's more for my 5ft 0 male child.

I'm not sure the toilet thing is anything more than attempting to squeeze as many toilets as possible in the smalllest available space, in the most economical way. Women tend to take longer in the toilets. Everytime you go to an event, guarantee the womens toilets have a queue a mile long whilst the men's are empty. Fitting 10 in a space that has comfortable space for 6 even if it means you are literally hugging the loo makes a twisted sense.

Its also about saving money.

But...if someone brought out a range of women’s tools designed for “dainty hands” people would be in uproar!

Not necessarily ... my 5'1" engineering student DD was struggling with a bolt so was handed what was iirc described as 'the girls spanner' - it's the big one, she just needed more leverage.

But yeah, in general (I'm 5'1") a lot of design is shit for smaller people, and some of it is unsafe. Default split oven always seems to have the grill/microwave on top - I've got mine the other way round so boiling liquids or sizzling steak isn't above my head.

I am a woman. None of this is an issue for me because I’m normal height. What is an issue is kitchen counter tops being too low, trousers too short etc.

I don't have room for an under counter fridge as I would love one with pull out drawers,no more loosing things at the back.
I don't know why cars don't all have adjustable seat belts,older ones that you had to fit yourself did so a slider pulled down so that the seat belt sat over your shoulder,good for children as the grow too,no more straps over the front of your neck.
The same issues also spread to the workplace too.