Why- WHY- aren't women involved in the design of the items they use???

[rosepoet]

I'm barely 5ft 3"...so why do fridgefreezers have the fridge at the top? So that the top shelves are hard to reach? Why do induction cookers have 'touch controls' - guaranteed to turn off/malfunction, when you...you know, COOK with them and the pan boils over, or you have wet fingers? Why are kitchen cabinets designed for giants? Why do they sell soup stored on the top shelves in super markets- turning into soup bombs! Why? Because they haven't bothered to consult women, that's why! If you know of any brands of fridge freezers with the fridge on the bottom, please let me know...!

It's indirect sexism as more women are affected because women are on average shorter than men.

The comment about top shelves being hard to reach reminded me of the lunacy of the shoe displays in M&S, where the size 3s are on a high shelf, nicely in the eyeline of me at 5'7'', size 8 feet, but out of reach of the 5'2 woman who will be buying them, and the size 8s are on the bottom shelf, where it's a long way for me to reach down in the limited space while cramming my long legs between the shelves and the bench used to sit on while trying shoes on.

Normally I'm all over this type of thread recommending the Invisible Women book that pp have mentioned. But the book's massive weakness (which I put to the author and wasn't given a proper answer) is that the only proposed solution is more women involved in the design. As the OP also suggests.

Yes, there is a massive problem with a lack of data for women. But simply having a woman in the design office won't solve the problems (there probably is a woman in the office: female design engineers aren't that uncommon). But designers design with "universal" data. When the data isn't actually universal then we get problems, regardless of whether it's a woman or a man.

For example, in your situation, the fridge will have been designed for an average reach of say 35 inches (for example), which might be considered a universal average. As a woman, I have no idea whether that data is realistic for everyone or just men. So I use the number in my design because it's the only one I have. Infact, that's the average arm length for a man. But having a woman in the design office doesn't mean they are going to be able to notice incorrect data. I wouldn't be able to.

For those of you saying it’s a height thing not a gender thing, there are far more women who are 5 foot 2 than there are men of that height. The average man is taller than the average woman. This doesn’t mean that all women are short. Just than women as a group are generally going to be shorter than men as a group.

Well, the standard sizes for utilities and furniture (individual pieces and fitted) in both residential and commercial has been pretty stable for many decades and adopted at an international level for ease of manufacturing. Yes it comes from an era when designing was a more male prevalent industry (for product, furniture design, architecture etc and these disciplines crossed over and still do). However, starting a revolution in the sense of changing heights for everything to make them more female friendly would be quite impossible and some might be offended by such a move.
You could tailor make items in bulk specific to averages of particular global regions. Not an attractive option for manufacturers probably.
Or you could invent a new adjustable way of adapting such items to make them more flexible for the end user. Add on or take away sections on a hinge, screw or some concealed sturdy attachment locking mechanism. I would imagine if it was cost effective way, such processes would be already available through Ikea.
I just want a comfy bra that does everything - it’s only me wearing it and should fit me perfectly.
Stuff around the house, we all have to share and as we are different sizes, we all adapt quite successfully. If we were very rich, I have to say, some of the things in our home would have been custom made.

Adding the fact I need to have my seat so far forward in the car to reach the pedals that it really limits my view of things around me and means the steering wheel is practically in my lap.

Yes, it’s a short person thing. But “short person thing” that will disproportionately affect women.

Height IS a sex thing!
Yes, some women are tall and some men are short.
But the average uk female height is 5ft 3. The average uk male height is 5ft9.

Guess who is normally considered the "default human being" in society?

Typically, (although less so now than in the past) the average height in the UK would be considered to be around 5ft9. This is who things are designed for.

The exception to this has traditionally been kitchen worktops.

Which is why in many houses you will find that the bathroom sink (designed for default human) is taller than the kitchen sink (designed for the default doer of housework and cooking).

Measure them in your own house!
(Recently kitchen worktops have started to get taller, so this is less true of recently fitted kitchens).

If they changed everything it wouldn’t work for a large proportion of people

I suppose a retailer could clock into the short / tall idea

One thing that has shrunk though - airplane seats

Lol at "I'm 5'8" so this isn't a problem" .

Most kitchen appliances are designed for people who are at least five foot four. If you want items designed for shorter people consider using Indian or East Asian brands - my aunt got a new Indian fridge freezer where the freezer element is at the top and the whole thing is about five tall. It’s too short for me but perfect for her as she’s barely 5 ft tall.

Of course this is a sex thing! OP is the average height of a woman in the UK. A person of average height should surely find most products work for them.

Women aren't a minority. We're half of people FFS.

It is so bloody uncomfortable to use stuff designed for short people at least leave some tall options for the rest of us

Sinks too low, pram handles, hit your head if very low - don’t change everything just do some options

I can't believe how obtuse the 'it's a height thing not a female thing,' posters are being.

Also not recognising the difference between the 'height disadvantage' of something that may be slightly uncomfortable but still perfectly achievable and, most importantly, safe, e.g. easily accessing lower shelves or feeling slightly squashed in a small seat, compared to something that is physically impossible without assistance (reaching higher items) our outright dangerous (driving cars where safety equipment is not at the right place and it's hard to see over the bonnet/reach the pedals properly).

They did used to put the freezers at the top, OP. People didn't like them though.
Luckily, fridge freezers and other appliances/cabinets come in a variety of sizes, so if you're lucky enough to be able to have a new kitchen you can design it to your own specs, but otherwise you have to put up with what other people have chosen. Personally I would not have any wall units at all in my dream kitchen (which I will never have).

pockets In woman's jeans drive me fecking bananas! Why cant we can't have front pockets that you can at least put a phone in like men's jeans ??

This is why I want big baggy Joe Blogs jeans to come back into fashion and hopefully decent sized pockets

Whose idea is it to put small sized shoes on the top shelf and big cupped bras on the lower rack?

The cash points being positioned lower, as the taller posters have mentioned, is presumably so they are accessible for wheelchair users.

Try men’s jeans?

Sanitary bins. Worst thing ever. Argggghhhh

Tools, particularly power tools, are designed for men's hands. I put up all the furniture and do minor DIY and I would love for there to be a drill with a narrower handle for example.

I want pockets in clothes, lots of pockets. Men's trousers don't fit me around the waist if they fit me on the hips.

And I'd really like a comfortable seatbelt that doesn't twist or rub the side of my neck.

And more toilet cubicles for women.

The favourite current design is the round washing capsule pod container. The screw lid requires a massive hand to open it, but the big hand then cant get into the resulting opening.

There is clearly a problem with things being designed for men at the expense of women, but I wonder if sometimes, the design is poor for everyone.

Like the washing capsule pod container, there's the Schwartz spice jars that you can't get a teaspoon into (WTF?) and bulbs in cars that require hands the size of a newborn baby but with superhuman strength to change them.

I’m 5’9’’ and the shortest out of my group of friends so in my experience there are several women taller than average. I realised yesterday how great the inside pockets on a denim jacket are. Think DH was sick of me saying ‘look at these pockets! I can fit everything in them...’ women’s clothes need pockets.

I'm 5'5" and most things height-wise are fine for me. I definitely want my fridge on top of my freezer as I get things in and out about 10x more often than the freezer and I'd rather not have to bend down all the time to peer at the back of shelves, I hate under counter fridges. I don't have any bother with supermarket shelves or kitchen cupboards, so a couple of inches makes a big difference, or maybe I've got long arms.

The main things I have difficulty with are car seatbelts rubbing my neck, having to have the seat very forward in cars and toilet cubicles/sanitary bins.