Why- WHY- aren't women involved in the design of the items they use???

[rosepoet]

I'm barely 5ft 3"...so why do fridgefreezers have the fridge at the top? So that the top shelves are hard to reach? Why do induction cookers have 'touch controls' - guaranteed to turn off/malfunction, when you...you know, COOK with them and the pan boils over, or you have wet fingers? Why are kitchen cabinets designed for giants? Why do they sell soup stored on the top shelves in super markets- turning into soup bombs! Why? Because they haven't bothered to consult women, that's why! If you know of any brands of fridge freezers with the fridge on the bottom, please let me know...!

If everything matched the average there would be a lot of uncomfortable people

Yes, "one size fits all" is rarely good for everyone. I suppose the answer is adjustability, but that costs. Having several size versions isn't always cost effective.

I do wonder what a bra designed by women would be like. Although we don't all want or need the same thing from a bra so i guess it would never work anyway!

Seatbelts. I have these things in all cars I regularly use. They hook the cross-chest part lower down so it doesn't rub your neck. I even took one on holiday for the hire car!

I am 5'11 and I find that everything is always too low. The number of restaurants where you have to hunch over the tiny table while sitting on a chair that is also too low! At work I had to argue to have my desk altered to my height (I also have back issues), because the average-sized one was somewhere on my lap! I feel like Hagrid
I think that dd+ bras are definitely designed by either men who only saw big boobs in porn and think that they defy gravity, or maybe women who have no idea what it's like to have big boobs - why are 99.9 % of them so uncomfortable, with tiny thin straps that dig grooves into your shoulders.

It’s an a tricky one and averages don’t necessarily help. The average person has one breast and one testicle after all. But that doesn’t preclude creative solutions and more flexible design.

Many of the strength issues faced by women are increasingly recognized by manufacturers but largely in response to older people lobbying - for example, I read about Germancar manufacturers redesigning their handbrakes when the pensioners lobby complained that they couldn’t use the ones that can be pulled really tightly. Especially where safety is concerned and women are affected differently, investing in product design should be a major priority.

On kitchen cabinets, I don’t think anyone realistically uses the top shelves for items used on a regular basis. Even if I were six inches taller or shorter, that’s not going to be where I store my teabags or things in daily use. I do understand how frustrating it must be to find the whole world inaccessible but other than living in a bespoke environment with others of the same stature, some things will have to be inconvenient for some. I guess the trick is in making sure it isn’t always the same group inconvenienced, which is where the problem might lie today (except for airline seats!)

If there's one size then around the average (5'7 not the male average) may be sensible but some things there's an issue where a taller person may be able to use the item just not ideally but the small person can't use it at all - and vice versa. In such cases either there need to be more options/adjustability or else the design should be that the maximum number can use it.

@Zone4flaneur yes, I’m 5’1 and my legs are actually as long as my DH’s who is an average height man!
I think it’s important to point out the difference between men and women’s bodies is not just height because even if you luck out in that aspect (actually, I don’t mind being short and don’t wish myself taller but the world is definitely not made for people my height) things are still not the right size for you because your body shape will be different to that of a man.

I think we should be really angry about this really.

@raspbury makes a very good point about why this happens.

I read about Germancar manufacturers redesigning their handbrakes when the pensioners lobby complained that they couldn’t use the ones that can be pulled really tightly.

My VW has an automatic 'handbrake' which works really well. I've had problems in the past using cars which are also driven by left handed men.

Because enough women aren't taking STEM subjects. Most women's upbringing and education doesn't encourage them into engineering subjects so they just don't end up in these roles.

I don't agree with this. I'm doing a psychology degree and there are more women on the course than men. Same for the lecturers. Interestingly many are Muslim women. Also I have noticed science related fields like medicine and dentistry and harder STEM have a lot of women from what are considered very patriarchal societies.

My family are from the West Indies and lots of women go into the sciences. Same for women friends I know from Ghana. Again these societies often have men at the centre.

I'm not saying that women don't face discrimination, but I don't believe women in the UK face greater discrimination than women from these societies do. If women in the UK aren't going into Stem maybe it's because they don't have to or have more choice. I don't think discrimination is the largest factor.

I was watching Chernobyl and I read that even in the communist USSR there were more women in STEM during the 80s than there were in the USA. I didn't note the source mind. So restriction of choice maybe affects how many women go into STEM?

It is a problem in the UK agreed. But what drives the issue is more complex I think. It would be interesting to know how we compare to other countries in Europe.

The comment about high cupboards deterring the children - you do realise that they just drag chairs over and stand on those, don't you? Never rely on high cupboards to store dangerous items, and never underestimate the drag/curiosity power of an unattended three year old....

Because enough women aren't taking STEM subjects.

In this context, it's the real discrepancy in the TE aspects which matter, not medicine etc.

I reckon there's a lot of misconceptions about what engineers do in the 21st century, which may be one of the contributing factors.

I remember a work trip years ago in which we were mounting a 24 hour shift system, and sharing cars between teams. My colleague and I went to pick the car up at the start of our shift and we couldn’t get the handbrake off! And we’re neither of us delicate shrinking violets, over the average height, fairly good upper body strength, but it took both of us hauling on it to release it.

I reckon there's a lot of misconceptions about what engineers do in the 21st century, which may be one of the contributing factors.

That's an interesting point. Still it would be interesting to note of the women going into engineering what percentages come from what backgrounds, and how we compare in take up rates to women in countries similar in culture to ours.

That way we could really tackle the problem.

Its a short ass problem.

Im like that too x

I reckon there's a lot of misconceptions about what engineers do in the 21st century

I agree. In my head they fix engines. I know this isn't true as several of the DSs friends are doing "engineering" but that's always the initial image it creates. Perhaps the name is outdated.

On kitchen cabinets, I don’t think anyone realistically uses the top shelves for items used on a regular basis. Even if I were six inches taller or shorter, that’s not going to be where I store my teabags or things in daily use.

Bloody DH does. He's 18 inches taller than I am.

On the other hand, he can't see the cooker hob without stooping, because the hood gets in the way. Swings and roundabouts...

I'm starting to think our kitchen cabinets are not very high, my youngest DC who is about 5' tall can reach them OK.

@CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook

You're right it's not really STEM as a whole, it's mainly the engineering and possibly also the technology subjects that girls don't seem to take.

@ErrolTheDragon

You're also right, there is a lot of misconceptions about what engineers actually do.

I spend most my time either at my computer or in meetings discussing ideas. I do occasionally end up in the workshop getting messy and hacking/fixing stuff but this is the smallest part of my job not the biggest.

If I'd been under the impression I'd be in a workshop most of the day doing manual labour I wouldn't have gone down the engineering route. But I was lucky enough to have a really good teacher who was clear that wasn't the reality of the job.

Kitchen cabinets can be fixed though, ok it’ll take a new kitchen but if you do put one in go for what you want

Usually people choose space for storage though even if hard to reach but if you have enough room you could do away with high ones completely

I helped a whiplash doctor do some research on this. Smaller necks suffer whiplash more than bigger ones, due to the seat not being supportive enough in the right places and belts being in the wrong place. Smaller people tend to sit forward in their seat rather than against the seat.

Yes the car thing is massive, there are certain makes of cars I just cannot drive as the seat position is all wrong. Volkswagen perfect, bmw shit.

The etymology of 'engineer' is related to ingenuity and 'genesis' - creation, devising.
'Engines' are merely one of their creations.

The German term is Ingeniur ... that probably explains a lot about the status of engineers and the health of their industries.

Engineers are so ingenious that we're blissfully ignorant of much of what they do!

THE fit range of mens clothing is surprising. It won’t suit all, but at 5t5 size 10 I am not in the smallest of men’s clothes.

WOmens trousers are not a great fit for me as to fit on the legs they tend to need a belt.

OMG don't get me started about bloody sanitary bins in public toilets! Bloody bane of my life. I am large of arse,and have list count of the times I've shoved a sanitary bin out from the side of the toilet so I can sit on the toilet properly!

Why aren't they triangular to fit across the corner of the cubicle?

I'll add - overhead bins on aircraft. I'm 5 foot 1 and a half and on some I can't physically reach the bins (Boeing 777 I'm looking at you with your stupid design).

Definitely a height thing but still irritating.