If you are pro choice...

[Doubledoubledenim]

Name changed for this

I really want to ask some questions for anyone happy to answer about feelings on abortion. I don’t feel like its an approachable subject I can talk about IRL as everyone I know is venomously pro choice and if I start to put forward a view which isn’t the same as theirs they get really quite aggressive and defensive.

So, if you are pro choice does that include late term abortions or would you feel differently about one at 6 weeks to one at 24 weeks? Also a lot of people say it’s the woman’s body so her choice - would that reason still stand for later abortions or would you think it would need to be a serious medical reason for baby/mum to justify this? Or does pro choice mean pro choice for you meaning any reason and any time within the legal limit is ok.

I hope I’ve worded this in a completely inoffensive way as I really don’t want to upset anyone it might affect.

I held my 24 weeker as he died in neonatal. Broke my heart led to a break down, suicide attempt, psychiatric hospital stay and PTSD.

As early as possible as late as necessary every time what happened to me has fuck all to do with other women's bodies and choices.

I've never had a termination but if i fell pregnant in the future I would as due to my last (living) sons birth another pregnancy and birth would very likely kill me. I would be leaving three children motherless and I'm not prepared to do that.

I had a termination for medical reasons at 31 weeks pregnant, I wouldn't say I had an abortion because I desperately wanted my baby but unfortunately her condition wasn't properly discovered until around 29 weeks and then we had to wait for amnio and MRI results for it to be confirmed. The day the consultant confirmed the diagnosis I said I wanted them to do the procedure, I couldn't prolong it a second longer than necessary and two days later I gave birth to my beautiful girl and the second she was in my arms I screamed like an injured animal and just kept saying I was sorry. It was honestly the absolute worst experience of my life and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. However, it was a decision myself and my husband made as our pain was the better option over our daughter being born and having no quality of life, never walking, talking with possible deafness/blindness/epilepsy - the list was endless and an MRI confirmed severe brain damage and that her head and brain were under developed and two consultants told us we were doing the right thing and I've had another consultant meeting post birth who confirmed the placenta was also severely affected so I know we made the right decision. The hardest decision of my life but I believe the right one.
Before all of this happened I was pro choice and now I am even more so. I agree as early as possible as late as necessary and in my case it was a very rare and unfortunate situation but I'm so grateful to live in a country that gave me that choice and I didn't have to bring a child into the world who I know would have no quality of life and also would massively affect the life of my son who would essentially lose out on having a mother and father who would have to give up most of their time caring for a very poorly sister. I had a healthy living child to think of too in my decision. Some people will not agree with my decision and that's their opinion and they are entitled to it but I will be forever grateful to the drs, nurses and midwives who were so kind, considerate and caring during my time in need. Some people aren't so fortunate and that makes me sad.

Pro-choice here. Meaning, I'm pro a woman's right to choose, either way.

OP you've heard some examples of the terrible, awful reasons people have had to have terminations. Perhaps all you need to do is ask yourself what the most compassionate thing to do is in the circumstances?

And then remember that any change in the current legislation will make those circumstances worse, because there never is a "but surely this case is different" clause in law.

I believe it is a decision for individuals to make about their own unique circumstances.

I read a great analogy recently. If you are to donate a kidney to save a persons life, they check check and double check you actually want to give your body part away and are not being manipulated or bullied into doing it. If you decide to walk away it is totally permitted even if it means definite death for the other currently live human being. Nobody has the right to piggy back on someone else’s body without their permission. Even if it means they don’t get to live.

Im pro choice,just becuse it never happened to me doesnt mean i get to dictate to other women about their bodies.

Took us long enough in Ireland for women to have a choice..

Induced birth is different to an abortion though.. this is to a pp. I delivered a baby at 20 weeks without his heart being stopped first

Proposed restrictions - utterly terrifying

Alabama - ban
Arkansas - 18 wks
Georgia - ban once fetal heartbeat detected
Indiana - ban for dilation-evacuation
Kentucky - heartbeat (blocked)
Louisiana - heartbeat (pending Mississippi)
Mississippi - heartbeat/ban d-e (temp blocked)
Missouri - 8 wks
N Dakota - ban d-e
Ohio - heartbeat
Utah - 18 wks (blocked)

So if you live in one of those 8 states whose proposed restrictions weren't blocked by federal court you might need to travel to one of these 9?
New York - decriminalize abortion
Vermont - abortion a fundamental right.
Massachusetts, Illinois, Rhode Island, Wisconsin, Maine, Nevada, and Hawaii - protect abortion rights.

Source: qz.com/1627412/these-are-all-the-states-with-anti-abortion-laws-signed-in-2019/

I refuse to judge another woman. I have not walked in her shoes.

I'm pro-choice in that I believe it is up to the individual woman to decide whether she wants to be pregnant or not. As early as possible, as late as necessary seems to be a good maxim.

This was discussed in an ethics class recently, where the scenario went along the lines of - you wake up after a night out to discover that someone has connected your circulation to that of a famous violinist. For whatever reason, their heart and organs require attachment to your circulation to function and if the connection is tied off, they will die. The other people in the room say they are sorry, but you were the only match and it's OK because in 9 months time he will have recovered, be able to function as an independent entity again, and the connection can be severed. However, maintaining the connection for as long as required comes at a small risk to you and some limitations on your ability to live as an autonomous individual.

Is it ethical to insist that you remain connected to the violinist?

Of course it isn't. No human on this planet owes anyone else the use of their organs in order to maintain life, and so definitely no woman owes a bundle of cells the use of her body for the next 9 months until he or she can exist independently.

I agree hic but that analogy doesn't go nearly far enough - you'd have to care for the violinist for 18 years after this, the "disconnection" procedure would have side effects such as incontinence, and the violinists father (who could be a drug addict, abusive, ect) would have a free pass to hassle you for life.

In answer to your question OP, yes I believe in abortion at any time.

I've got a question for pro lifers: do you think organ donation should be mandatory when you die? Obviously not every corpse would have suitable organs but there should be no opting out. After all, it's about saving lives isn't it?

I know from asking this question on a similar thread most pro lifers answered that they didn't support this - only they have a right to say what happens to their dead body. No matter if they would have save 10 lives, and it would not harm them in any way (impossible to harm a dead person isn't it). Apparently corpses have more rights than women.

@RageAgainstTheVendingMachine

I refuse to judge another woman. I have not walked in her shoes.

Enough said

I’m pro choice - at any time for any reason up to delivery.
I personally would not choose a late term abortion except TFMR but I don’t get to dictate what other women can do with their bodies.

I find the situation in America scary to say the least.

I am another as early as possible and as late as necessary.

If you look into the A.B,C,X cases and Savita from Ireland and then read about women in Mexico, well there are a lot of non medical reasons for late term abortions.

One fictitious story, but based on the experience of refugees.

You are fleeing a war and genocide in a sub saharan african country. You have managed to get your self and your children to the edge of the desert and you have found someone who will take you and a group of others across the desert. It has cost you the last of your money.

Half way across the sahara the caravan of trucks stops. The people taking you across the desert say there is another price to pay, you have the choice of the traffickers sexually assaulting your children or of being left to die a horrible death.

You try to pretend you didn't make the choice you did, you think of it as another bad experience but you are determined to get to Europe.

After weeks more travelling you notice your daughter is putting on weight, she is 12 and your heart breaks again.

You eventually get to Europe.

It is now that you are in a 'safe' country you seek an abortion for your daughter.

stucknoue Would you deny this child an abortion?

OP I find your posts goady. Do you disagree with UK law on abortion, and if so what would you change?

As PP’s have stated, comparing people wanting to limit women’s access to abortion to others’ opinions about those people’s views doesn’t stack up.

Caveat: I've read the first post only and replying to that.

As early as possible as late as necessary is what I've read on MN and my personal view is that a women should have that level be available regardless of mine or anyone else's personal views about what we would do.

I'm pro choice in that if it's not my uterus, it's nothing to do with me.

@doubledoubledenim the mn pro choice view is not common in UK wider society. In fact if I remember correctly from studies it was only a tiny percentage (single figure) who wanted abortion till birth. The vast majority were in the middle and agreed with uk law and I think a sizeable minority wanted the week limit lowered.

@dramaramallama Assuming your son was being terminated when you were told this and not being born early for another reason that is horrendously bad practice!

RCOG guidance clearly states feticide should be performed beyond 21 / 22!weeks gestation unless the baby’s condition is such that death during labour is absolutely certain.

www.rcog.org.uk/globalassets/documents/guidelines/terminationpregnancyreport18may2010.pdf

I am wholly pro-choice.

If you look at the U.K. statistics, only 2% of abortions in the U.K. take place after 20 weeks. That 2% are almost completely made up of women terminating for dire medical reasons.
When we were teenagers, one of my closest friend’s mother was pregnant with a much wanted baby. She found out at her 20 week scan that there was a problem with his respiratory system. More in depth scans a few weeks later showed that his lungs essentially hadn’t developed an opening at the top which would allow him to draw breath outside the womb. So she was faced with the choice: terminate at 20-something weeks, or allow him to be born at full term and suffocate when he’s born when he tries to breathe but can’t
I know what I would do. And it’s what she did too.
People simply do not have late term abortions just for the crack - the hardcore pro-lifers (Just a shit word for anti-choice ) seem to think there’s hordes of women swanning into abortion clinics at 20-odd weeks pregnant having abortion because “hmm just don’t really fancy having a baby anymore”

I am as much pro-life regarding myself as I can be, but pro-choice in terms of society.
If I'm asked for advice, I'd probably lean towards keeping the baby.
But I'm very glad that safe legal abortions are available where I live and I will campaign and vote for abortion to be legal.

Each case is different, but if I was drawing up legislation, then I'd probably put it at around 20 weeks with defined exceptions.

Every limit between conception and birth is arbitrary anyway.

I’m basically in favour of the existing UK law except that I’d change it to make it explicitly on demand at least in the first trimester. The current situation is a ridiculous charade which pretends to be checking that a woman’s motives are sufficiently strong but in fact does no such thing - it can’t keep anyone happy.

@TastingTheRainbow I hope that you're not actually a HCP working with vulnerable women given your total lack of compassion.

Perhaps you could try and remember that I am a real person, posting about a real and traumatic experience. Describing what I believe was a caring and compassionate approach to the certain death of a much wanted for baby as "horrendously bad practice!" in order to "win" an argument on the internet is pretty shitty behaviour.

I'm pro-choice.

I don't like the idea of late term abortions, but I would not attempt to prevent someone having one (in anyway, even in words). I wouldn't judge them either; unless you consider feeling sad about the situation is a judgement.

Anyone who has an abortion, has one for a reason. It is there choice, being pro-choice to me means you don't think some reasons for that choice aren't valid and therefore they cannot have an abortion.

I don't think pro-choice means you can't feel emotion about abortion. It means you don't think your feelings are so valid and important they override another person's decision.