Are people shaving their arms now are they?!

[qwertyskirty]

Just seen the venus shaving advert. A woman was shaving her whole arm?! Why?!

I have thick black arm hair and my head hair is thin and blonde - I really lucked out there!!😂 I don't shave though and I refuse to be told it's not female to have body hair. Also doesn't it grow back stubbly?

If she has a full sleeve tattoo it's the done thing, or rather myself and everyone I know who has a sleeve does it. I don't see anything wrong with showing an action that women are doing for a legit reason

For those that shave their arms, do they grow back like leg hair stubbly? Or longer?! I'd love to have hairless arms although mine are only fair! But if they come back as stubble not a chance

It would depend on how thick your hair is. all shaved hair grows back stubbly really because it's short and blunt, you notice it if the hair is thicker though.

I’ve shaved my arms for years. I hate my thick, black arm hair and felt really self conscious before I started shaving them.

You blame feminists for societal attitudes towards people with disabilities?

No I don't. I am saying how can you argue for a woman to choose what to do with her own body even if that choice adversely affects other women, whilst simultaneously that women shouldn't be able to choose what to do with their own bodies because that adversely affects other women?

Trying to control what people do with their own bodies is the start of a slippery slope. Where does it end? At what point do you think it's overstepping? Just hair removal? How about make up? Clothes? Plastic surgery?

'Yet feminists demand that women be allowed to choose abortion because a woman should have ultimate choice over their own bodies? Despite that the availability of abortion makes it more difficult for some women to continue with pregnancies.'

You are definitely blaming feminists for something here. Later you expanded that it was pressure on women to abort where scans /tests indicated disability.

Feminists are not to blame for societal attitudes to disability. Feminists are most definitely against forced or coerced abortion, same as they are against forced or coerced chdbearing.

You definitely saying that feminists fight for abortion to be available around the world is short sighted /wrong in some way.

You know that women in counties without legal abortion die preventable deaths, do you?

Also I haven't seen anyone in the thread say women should not be allowed to shave their arms. I certainly haven't said it. I've said individual women can and should do as they please. My point is that at a group level, women and girls are subject to ever increasing pressure on them to adhere to certain standards. Of course I know you don't get that bit as you have never been influenced in any way due to society, advertising, peers, family etc even as a child, so maybe that is why we are getting at loggerheads.

Oh fgs. I agree with abortion. I agree with abortion on demand. I agree with abortion regardless of the fact that it negatively affects some women.

What I am asking is why is it ok to try and control what women choose to do with their bodies citing possible harm to other women (hair removal etc) whilst at other times arguing that choice should over ride potential harm to others (abortion)?

My view is "my body my choice" regardless of circumstance.

Interesting how you chose to ignore all of my other points. Where do you draw the line? Where does personal choice end and control begin?

And if you are concerned about pressures on women why do you shave your legs? Given that you do I think it's a bit off to complain about women who choose to shave their arms.

You choose what you want to do so really you should leave others to make their own choices.

I shave my legs when i can be bothered, never shaved my arm's don't know anyone who does,

But literally no one on the thread has said that women should not /should not be allowed to shave arms, legs, whatever.

It's a point about societal pressure, beauty standards etc etc

I understand them in part because I am not immune to them, I have shaved my legs since age 10 as it was the done thing, a grown up thing, at my school, a sign of maturity.

I get that you are immune to that sort of thing so maybe that's where the confusion is arising.

There's no doubt that girls are under more pressure than ever before, for a variety of reasons, and levels of mental health issues are on a big rise. I'm not going to apologise for caring about that and wondering what part advertising plays in it.

Why is it only advertising though?

Surely the biggest impact is what you see people around you doing?

The best idea is to raise children to think for themselves, to not just do what everyone else is doing but to be their own person. Do what they enjoy, like what they like regardless of whether that is what everyone else is doing.

No never needed to. And I'm dark haired with pale skin.

I'm sure someone has said this already but in the advert she's shaving her arm because of her sleeve. Think a lot of people who have them do that. Although I did think it was a bit strange.

It's not only advertising, it is a combination of many things.

Advertising is one though, and not a minor one. That is why there are strict regulations around advertising, because it is effective.

Great idea to raise children to be immune to outside influence, as you are. However, most people, especially children, are not like you. They are susceptible to peer pressure, social norms, advertising, imagery and messaging on social media etc etc. It's all very well saying well kids should just be better than that, but that's not the real world, and that's why people look at and think about and talk about the various influences they have in their lives and what effect they can /do have. Advertising is one of them.

Common in Asian women, all the waxing packages here include it but I never bother as I'm fair, the beauty therapists (also Asian mostly here) all comment how lucky I am. Definitely a cultural/natural hair colour thing

I'm sure someone has said this already but in the advert she's shaving her arm because of her sleeve. Think a lot of people who have them do that.

Its has been hut it appears some on the thread want to ignore that and attribute it down to pressuring women to shave their arms, just because women should.

They also dont want to acknowledge that lots of men with tattoos also do this

My best mate at school's parents were Northern Indian and I got the Talk from her Mum about getting eyebrows and stuff sorted out. She changed her mind about piercing my nose until I was 18, despite my enthusiasm for the idea --and settled for forcing a million little glass bangles over my giant hands until I bashed my wrist on a table corner and looked like I'd been self harming, when she replaced them with a big silver bangle and earrings instead.

WTAF was she doing sticking her nose in? You wernt even her child.

Imagine the AIBU if MN was around then and your mum had posted a thread about your mates mum telling you what to do with your body. Ditto if it was posted on the feminism board.

I have yet to see an ad with a man shaving his arms as part of his beautiful empowered life.

Children seeing the ad are unlikely to know the tattoo thing. They will see pretty aspirational woman shaving arms.

Plus

Lots of women do remove their arm hair as they feel it is unfeminine/ unsightly etc. So clever move from the ad agency I suppose.

If it was an ad for arm shaving for tattoos it would have both sexes and other body parts like back.

The ad (IIRC) is all women and includes leg shaving, is not about tattoos, its about women and girls and how shaving loads of body hair off is a necessary pre step before going out with your fabulous beautiful mates and having empowered fun.

That is my read of it and I'm not alone.

Oh look on telly right now another advert, women can face the world confidently after using a different hair removal method.

None of these messages are in isolation they all add together.

Been shaving mine since I was 13. Hate the thick, dark, hairs.

"In my view it is wrong to judge what another person does with their own body"

Seems to fall on deaf ears when i explain on threads that i cant/dont want to use a mooncup!!!!!!!!!!!!

A woman's place is in the wrong, Helena.

Not much changes.

Divide and rule with all this as well.

If it was an ad for arm shaving for tattoos it would have both sexes and other body parts like back

It's an ad for womens razors. Not for shaving to make tattoos look better. If it was, I am sure both sexes would be in it.

But that fact that she has tattoos, does change it.

Or is she not allowed to shave, because she feels her tattoo looks better? Is she really allowed the tattoo at all? Or should she have got it and refused to shave?

Children seeing the ad are unlikely to know the tattoo thing. They will see pretty aspirational woman shaving arms.

And yet, without this ad or any other ad, lots of women appear to regularly shave their arms. As this thread shows. Perhaps parents who feel, women who shave their arms, to show off tattoo should be hidden away and pretend it doesnt happen, should simply talk to their kids when the advert is on. I actually said to dp, about a year ago 'I want a sleeve but cant be arsed with the shaving. Both my kids know it's something people with tattoos do. Dd (15) doesnt shave her arms and never expressed and issue about it but then dp shaves his arms......because of his tat sleeve.

Not entirely sure, why anyone would want people or advertisers to pretend this doesnt happen. Without the advert it happens.

Back in the mid to late 80s i was at high school and being half Italian i have thick dark hair. My mum would not let me shave. Shes no feminist so i suspect this was because she didnt want me being too "attractive" to boys.

I was subjected to vicious misogynistic bullying by both boys and girls and i do mean vicious There were two particular girls who were VERY nasty and this went on for a good three years. I had my first leg wax at 18. Im less annoyed with my DM and more annoyed with the school for not doing anything about misogynistic bullying. 30+ years later i know nothing has changed. Schools need to pull their finger out over these issues.

As for waxing................i can no longer afford it so dont have it done. I have my hair professionally salon colored as i have a lot of grey. Dad went grey early so its hereditary. Cant do it myself as i would needs 3 or 4 boxes as its so thick.

Economic pressure is likely leading to mental health issues too. Imagine how women on low incomes feel when they cant afford to meet all these expectations.

Ive tried to explain this many times on the "who should pay on dates" threads but even some feminists refuse to see that women have already paid out more than men to meet societal expectations despite having less money yet there is still the insistence that they should pay half. Im not saying women should expect to be paid for but its not as black or white as people like to think.

Its when things like this crop up that im reminded that working class women are sometimes seen as "lesser" both by women and men.

I sometimes read the dating threads and i couldnt "afford" some of the men on there.

I have a DH so dont have to worry about it currently but i dont think i would date if anything happened to him. And i certainly wouldnt use a dating site.
There are many expectations now that are far too high especially for women. But having to spend money to meet these expectations WILL have knock on effects elsewhere in a womans budget like being able to afford to go halves on dates. Its silly and disingenuous to pretend that it wont.

HelenaDove

Who is telling you you are wrong though? Presumably other women.

Which is my point. Why are women seeking to control what other women do with their bodies?