Ex MIL funeral

[WienerDiva]

I don't want this to be a long one nor a drip feed but I fear the long one might happen. So here goes.

Ex MIL's funeral tomorrow. My dd(8) was the closest grandchild due to geographical reasons. They had a sweet relationship. Ex mil wasn't the nurturing type or overbearing or interfering and didn't ever show too much interest in dd but they saw each other regularly and enjoyed each other's company.

Me and ex husband split 2.5 years ago. We are both in new relationships. His dp was a very good friend of mine and she refuses to have anything to do with me (I don't know if this is relevant but I feel this may be).

Anyway, me and dd are mega close. She is close to her df too but says he doesn't listen to her and feels she can't tell him how she feels because he gets a bit grumpy if it doesn't go his way.

Now, he wants dd to travel in the limos to the church, then church to crematorium.

I don't have an issue with this in theory. But she doesn't want to.

She wants to sit with me and my parents (there was never animosity between me and ex in laws). Ex husband was her to sit with him.

I have suggested I sit behind him at the end of a pew so if she needs me she can come to me.

This isn't good enough for him. He said she is to sit with him and I will be a few rows back, dd isn't happy with this at all. Ex is being a bit of a mule. Not really listening to what dd had told me and just keeps saying "well she didn't say any of this whilst I've had her" I don't know what to do.

My parents have suggested making her go in the family car with him and sit with him but this doesn't fit right with me.

She's also said she doesn't want to go to the crematorium without me. But it's immediate family only.

I have seen ex fil since mil passed and he was very keen for me to be involved with the family but I'm aware dynamics and emotions change etc.

There has been a lot of financial stuff come to light in the last 3-4 months and my parents have lent £10k to ex husband to cover these debts (again not sure if it's relevant)

I'm so sorry for the length that and any comments will be taken on board! Thank you

I think you should encourage her to sit with her DF. His DM was her grandmother and I understand why he wants her beside him. He won't be entirely logical if he's just lost his mother. Tell and show your DD where you'll be in the church. If she refuses in the church I don't think there's much either of you can do.
Going to the crematorium is a different matter. I wouldn't force an 8 year old to go if they didn't want to.

I really feel for you, it's really obvious from your post you want to honour your Mil and her relationship with her grandchild whilst listening to your daughter too.

Just to reframe things a little, if you were still married, would you and your daughter expect to be in the limos and go to the church and then the crematorium? Do you think XH is asking her to be there from a place of including her as a primary mourner (for want of a better word)? That she might have felt left out on reflection at a later date? We have just gone through a family death, lots of gcs similar ages. Almost all GCs did question why they should go and really didn't want to initially. They were all heartbroken at the funeral.

However, I can't tell you how much it helped them process things. Would ex-fil be able to help, does she have someone on your xhs side who could be the one she can go to at the crematorium?

At 8yo she should have the option whether or not she attends the funeral.
Forcing her to be in the black car and down the front just isn't on.
Are there other children who will be attending?
She might be incredibly upset after the parlour and not be ready to go into the crem.

Stand up for her Op.

Losing a parent is already so hard, the service is emotional, and dependent on the religion some family members may carry the coffin to the front of the church for the service, my brother was one of those who did this for my mum, he was in no fit state to help anyone after

I disagree with the above. I think you should explain to your daughter that her dad needs his support and she should sit with him for the service. Teaching her self-sacrifice and that sometimes we need to do things for other people is a very good lesson. Your daughter is 8, she's not a baby. She can handle not sitting by your side for a funeral service

FMD

If her FATHER needs the SUPPORT of his eight year old daughter he needs a therapist. She is a YOUNG CHILD, not his crutch.

8 is young to be dealing with the death of her grandmother and she wants her Mum.

He’s a grown man.

Jesus wept.

Weiner. Talk to your FIL, tell him that DD wants to be there, but with you. Explain that exDh isn’t listening and is trying to insist she goes in the car with him and sits with him, but it’s best he has a word with exDh because if he carries on demanding she does this, then DD simply won’t go. DD is already upset & scared and you won’t have him making it worse for her. If he really wants DD to sit with him then she sits between you and him and his DP sits the other side of him like an actual adult without causing a fuss.

She is an 8 year old child - not a mini adult!!
It is good for her to go to the funeral and see that death is part of life but it will possibly be scary for her.

Of course she will want the support of her mum.

What does it matter who she sits with or how she gets there? Support your daughters decision in how she gets there and who she sits with. If your DExH takes issue then that's his problem x

“No one I love would ever want me to do something I’m not comfortable with and I would never ever expect my child to do that either.“
Really? You expect your child never to do anything they don’t want to do? Good luck with that!

Thank you all so much for your responses.

It has been very down to dd if she wants to attend the funeral and crematorium.

If explained what happens at both and said that there will be people there looking sad and some people, mostly those she knows really well including her dad will be crying etc.

She's still adamant she wants to go.

I have to respect that.

Someone pointed out that if we were still married then I'd be in the limo too. Yes I would but I'd also be there to support her as I'd wouldn't be as "grief stricken". The new gf is nice enough etc but dd doesn't have the kind of relationship with her that means she'd seek comfort from her.

I'm not going to talk to ex fil. He has enough going on and shouldn't be expected to have to deal with this sort of family politics when mourning his wife (very unexpected death and he very much loved her).

I think I'd tell them both that she'll try her best to be with him, but obviously if he's upset he won't be able to support her and she'll come to you.
I think the cars are awkward, mine wouldn't go in the cars with mil, I let them do what they wanted as it could be very upsetting for them.

I think your ex has a point, you should be there paying your respects but 3-4 rows back and she should travel with and sit with her dad. She's old enough to understand that this is how funerals work, and it seems she is trying to play you and her dad off against each other. Maybe I'm cynical but kids are quite aware of their parents wanting to please their child after a split, he's being quite reasonable in the circumstances

My gut instinct is telling me that if she wants her mum then that's ok and he may have to just deal with it unfortunately. Of course if she changes her mind then I don't have an issue and I've suggested to him we have to just play it by ear. This is her first experience of a funeral and is perhaps feeling clingy towards me as her dad just lost his mum.

I do hear what people are saying with regards to the sitting with him as per protocol etc. And in theory yes she should be. I just feel like maybe she is a bit young to have to be asked to suck it up and not be able to say goodbye to her granny in a way she wants to.

I disagree with the above. I think you should explain to your daughter that her dad needs his support and she should sit with him for the service. Teaching her self-sacrifice and that sometimes we need to do things for other people is a very good lesson. Your daughter is 8, she's not a baby. She can handle not sitting by your side for a funeral service.
She's 8 - it's a funeral service of someone she loved. She needs family support to get through that, it is not her job to support her adult father, who will have the support of his current partner anyway.

The frustrating thing is, if the shoe was on the foot (which I hope isn't for a long time obviously) he'd been more than welcome to sit the other side of dd if it was either of my parents for the sake of dd. Plus, we were together a very long time (16 years) and my dp makes every effort to get on well with ex.

If it were my child and my ex wanted them to sit with him I would tell my child that they had to support their father and his family was hers as well.
It is not the role of an 8 yo to provide emotional support to her parents
It is the role of a parent to support its child. The dad clearly is unable to do that on this occasion so it is right that the mother does so

If this is your DD's first funeral, she may well want to be with you, OP. I would suggest that she goes in the car with her dad, but that you are there for her to sit with. The other option is that she sits with her dad, but is able to get up and move to sit with you. I think your ex is being a bit selfish in expecting her to cope with it without you nearby, but as he is grieving, he probably isn't thinking straight. Cremations are hard and you need to prepare her for what happens and also be prepared to take her out if she finds it overwhelming.

When push comes to shove, is he really going to create a scene at his mother's funeral if your DD decides she wants to be with you? I am asking this as a genuine question. As a former church organist, I have played for thousands of funerals and have seen some horrendous behaviour. I think you need to stick to your guns of being close by.

I was in a similar situation, where my dad died and I was separated from my husband. I didn't even take my eldest to my dad's funeral and certainly didn't expect her to support me, despite having no partner at the time. She was 9.
I felt the funeral might be too much and she was able to be a part of the day by going to the wake only.
She went to school as usual and then came to the wake afterwards. This was more relaxed than the funeral, but still allowed her to be included in the day.

I'm not welcome at the crematorium as it's immediate family only so how I'm going to explain that to dd I don't know.

I don't want her to get frightened of funerals or death. It's a part of life and I think it's important for children to understand that. But at the same time done so in a way they can handle it.

My grandmother died when I was 9 and I wasn't allowed to go to the funeral. That angered me a little and I wasn't close to her at all.

I'd like to suggest she walks in with the family. However practically I don't know how she'll then find me etc.

If you aren't allowed into the crem (how would he stop you? Its a public building) then wait outside. You need to explain how the crem works to your DD. Tell her its all right to be sad and to cry. No need for this stiff upper lip nonsense. Could you take her to the crem to have a quick look? The crem staff will be more than happy to help you out if you explain the circumstances. Then show your daughter which door to leave by. Alert the funeral director to the circumstances as well, and they will be on standby to help your daughter leave if she becomes too distressed. As long as she knows that you are near, she should be fine. But do explain what will happen. I expect part of her reluctance is the not knowing.

@bertramrussell
Really? You expect your child never to do anything they don’t want to do? Good luck with that!
I didn’t say my child would never be expected to do something they don’t WANT to do- I said I would not have them do something they were not comfortable with. There is a huge difference, and thanks but I’ve actually managed to parent two children to adulthood whilst never forcing them to do things they were uncomfortable with. But I have raised them to speak about issues and accept consequences of choosing not to do things. But they are both people I regard as having a lot of integrity and congruence which is great.

I have explained.

I've said that granny's coffin will be on a raised table and a curtain will go around it whilst some music plays.

Dd is an emotionally mature child. But she is still only 8 and I know both me and her dad probably take that for granted sometimes.

But on this occasion I have to allow her to be 8 and to be rest assured that at a time she is feeling in need then those she needs will be there.

@wienerdiva
This statement of yours is key i just feel like maybe she is a bit young to have to be asked to suck it up and not be able to say goodbye to her granny in a way she wants to.
I agree with you and you just need to keep your confidence that it’s about your daughter and not your exH. Regardless of his difficult emotions at this time he is the adult and he needs to still put his and your daughter first. If he cannot do this then you need to sadly stand up to him as gently and fuss-free as possible. Good luck.

Seriously do not make her support her DF ...no matter how upset/angry he is....

she is a child - she needs to know you will stand up for her and that his needs do not trump her....
maybe she will feel on the day happy to sit beside him etc, maybe you say you will get there early so she can walk in with them ..

re the crem let her choose again...maybe say you will be outside if she decides to go ..
my dc was 12 and still found it all quite difficult when at first funeral - he would not have wanted to be at the front....

I'm not going to make her do anything she isn't ok with.

Unfortunately I don't have time on my side as the funeral is at 2pm today.

He had dd this weekend and I did ask in the week to have a chat with him at drop off but he said he was in a hurry. So he messaged me all this at gone 11pm last night instead.

I'm sorry, I didn't realise it was today. I think you have to be right there for your DD and if XH makes a fuss, you have to just take her and walk away. In this instance, you have to put your DD first. 8 is very young still. Obviously, you don't want to create a fuss, but better that than your DD being upset.

Good luck.

“my parents have lent £10k to ex husband to cover these debts (again not sure if it's relevant)”

It does show that he is happy to still be central to your family while not considering you central to his.

I would try ‘you were one of granny’s special grandchildren so you and Daddy go together in the special smart car as the people closest to her. Daddy will be sad, like you are, but he will look after you “