The petition to get chris packham sacked

[Whisky2014]

Wtf is this shit?

"87,866 Supporters
BBC to sack Chris Packham
As an employee of the BBC, Chris Packham should remain impartial and keep his views and beliefs to himself however, he is the face of many anti hunting campaigns and uses his celeb status as a platform to push his anti hunting agenda, he has made his goal to ban all kinds of hunting, and country sports and pursuits and I feel he is no longer fit to work for the BBC"

How about David Attenborough then? From this person's logic he should also be sacked

My DH goes to great lengths to encourage small birds in our suburban garden. You should see the cat proofing!

Last year we were delighted to see 3 hatchlings from 2 nests. First time ever!

All 3 were killed by crows within hours.

Anyway, an interesting debate on both sides; though I find that I 'side' with the farmers. It is beyond ridiculous that these licenses were revoked with 2 days' notice. I can understand farmers' anger.

But we really don't give any thought to how cheap food ends up in Asda, do we? Whether we're omnivorous or vegan.

Do you have children Emma? If so, then you have caused immeasurable harm according to the environmental campaigners.

I am with the farmers on this, but at present, I live in a country rather more robust in its approach to shooting predators. You see people out with guns quite regularly.

Not that it’s any of your business, I have two adopted children yes scaryteacher, Probably not the answer you were wanting.

Ha, Emma wins the argument again 😂

All 3 were killed by crows within hours.

Crows need to eat and feed their babies too though.

I have nests/baby birds in the garden and they are not taken by the crows, probably because I feed them too 🤷‍♀️ There's enough food for everyone.

We have crows living in nearby gardens. They are extremely aggressive to other birds, frequently attack smaller birds in flight, and also have a habit of dive bombing cats.
They make a horrible racket from dawn to dusk and seem to be the thugs of the birdworld. That said, I guess they're just doing what they have to, to survive.
My sympathies are with the farmers, and their livestock. I can't conceive of many things worse than a lamb having its eyes and tongue pecked out, then laying there blind, starving and in pain, until it finally succumbs to its injuries. It's like something out of that film The Birds, only worse, because it really happens. Our farmers have much higher animal welfare standards than many other countries, they deserve our support, and if they need to shoot crows to protect their lambs, that seems reasonable to me. That said, I think Chris Packham has a right to voice his opinions, even if I don't agree with them, on this issue. Intensive farming methods and a rise in the human population have pushed the natural world out of kilter in some ways, which probably exacerbates the crow and pigeon problems. However, the problems won't just disappear of their own accord, so farmers need to take steps to protect their livestock and crops.

I think CP is plain wrong; preventing the killing of certain species will result in the total loss of others, others i'd like to keep. He's also barking up the wrong tree for wildlife by promoting veganism.

However, i think the petition is dumb as he isnt a bbc presenter and he's entitled to his view. I also think its a dick move to tie dead crows to his gate etc.

I think trying to dress this up as 'protecting wild birds' is utterly disingenuous.

Farming is a job. Their livestock or crops are their product. They want to control something that is damaging their product because it impacts their profits. The licensing laws don't prevent them from doing this - They are still allowed to shoot birds, but they have to try other methods before they resort to shooting.

You choose to be a farmer, you accept the challenges and limitations of the environment around you, and the laws of the land. We all have to do this, whatever our trade or profession - they all have their constraints and limits.

Oh and some people just enjoy killing stuff. As evidenced by the totally unnecessary and unpleasant display of dead crows on CPs gate. He has also had horrible death threats, it must be deeply unpleasant for him and his family.

They are extremely aggressive to other birds, frequently attack smaller birds in flight, and also have a habit of dive bombing cats.

Every single predator is extremely 'aggressive' to its prey.

Cats, in fact, are one of the worst.

So are we saying that some predators are ok because they're cute, but others aren't?

ColdNeverBotheredMeAnyway You are 100% correct in everything you have said. As much as I’ve read on these threads from farmers saying it’s because they want to protect wildlife and their lambs, it is not. It is clearly a financial worry they have and the fact that they now have to find other means of moving ‘pests’ on that shooting them, because the easy option has now been taken away.

They worry that a dead lamb is a financial loss, they see their crops being eaten as a financial loss. I can’t see why none of these people can’t just admit that this is the reason they want to shoot these birds l, instead of pretending they care about their lambs and other wildlife.

Money, money, money!

I can’t see why none of these people can’t just admit that this is the reason they want to shoot these birds l, instead of pretending they care about their lambs and other wildlife

I completely agree.

Although I do believe some farmers of course case about the welfare of their lambs. But as other people have pointed out, there are other means of ensuring their newborn lambs or ewes aren't hurt by corvids. Indiscriminately shooting isn't the answer.

ColdNeverBotheredMeAnyway I understand what you’re saying. I’m sure some do worry, but it’s just a personal view that I have. I can’t see how you can REALLY care for something when it’s only purpose that you have brought them in to this world is to be slaughtered in a few months time. I just don’t understand the logic?

All the vitriol aimed at farmers for daring to make a living and needing to try and keep on top of "pest" species with no natural predators.

I'm assuming most of you have children? Eat meat / buy veg / consume processed foods (yes, that includes purchasing a loaf of bread) rather than grow your own entirely from scratch?

Maybe take a look in the mirror. If you consume the end product, knowing how it is produced and the known of effects of its production, then you have absolutely no right to try and take the moral high ground.

All the vitriol aimed at farmers for daring to make a living and needing to try and keep on top of "pest" species with no natural predators

They evolved with natural predators. Wolves, Bears, Wildcats, Birds of Prey. They were considered 'vermin' and were wiped out by gamekeepers and farmers.

There is one natural predator still doing well in the countryside. The red fox... and what do farmers want to do with them..? Yep, they're vermin too.

If you upset the balance of nature, this is the consequence. If we wipe out 'pest' species like crows and pigeons, what next?

The short sighted attitude is just exasperating.

They worry that a dead lamb is a financial loss, they see their crops being eaten as a financial loss. I can’t see why none of these people can’t just admit that this is the reason they want to shoot these birds l, instead of pretending they care about their lambs and other wildlife.

There is more to a lamb dying because its eyes have been pecked out than merely a financial loss. I know it seems odd to a lot of people, but a lot of livestock farmers, probably the majority, want their animals to have a good life before they go to slaughter. They don't 'pretend to care about their lambs' (do you know how rude that sounds?), they really do.

Plenty of farmers have pointed out that they will take a financial hit if they cannot control pest species. I hope you're looking forward to paying extra for your brassicas later this year, after the wood pigeons have eaten their fill, because the bastard farmer still wants to make a profit to live on.

And yes, ground nesting birds are a big consideration at this time of year - even the RSPB (Vice-Pres: C Packham) culls corvids to protect them.

I can’t see how you can REALLY care for something when it’s only purpose that you have brought them in to this world is to be slaughtered in a few months time. I just don’t understand the logic?
No, you really don't. All I can say is, go and spend some time on a well-run livestock farm.

You choose to be a farmer, you accept the challenges and limitations of the environment around you, and the laws of the land.
And the way the law is applied is changed with 2 days warning, no consultation, no discussion, at absolutely the worst time of year. No wonder they're cross.

I can’t see how you can REALLY care for something when it’s only purpose that you have brought them in to this world is to be slaughtered in a few months time. I just don’t understand the logic? Because it's a living creature. So I found a lamb abandoned by its mother last week. Should I just leave it to die. It really was on its last legs. We nursed it back to life and now it's happily skipping about. The only reason it was born at all was that I arranged for its mother to become pregnant. So it's my responsibility.

Only read the first few posts.

I think his family have been threatened?

It's appalling. Esp as the group angry with him legit have guns.

Some farmers really do care about welfare and wildlife, yes. Some farm because they live wildlife and the landscape - the thought of never hearing a curlew's cry again is awful to them. Some are paid to farm purely for conservation purposes.

Saw Chris on Victoria Derbyshire. They have had death threats now, a letter detailing various deaths they can inflict was delivered yesterday and the police are dealing.

If you upset the balance of nature, this is the consequence. If we wipe out 'pest' species like crows and pigeons, what next?
NO ONE is considering wiping them out: the species at issue at some of the most common and successful in the British countryside. They have no/few natural predators left in the UK, due to population pressure. The consequence? We need to step in to act as the predator, or the ecosystem becomes even more wildly unbalanced.

Exactly the same applies to deer: their only predators in the UK are the car and the gun. Leave them to breed, without predation, and they will not only inflict sizeable financial losses on farmers and foresters, but will also junk the environment they live in, to the detriment of other species, until they themselves are starving and riddled with disease. It is for exactly this reason that a bloke I know makes his living carrying out controlled culls and selling on the meat.

And I should add that financial losses for farmers = less food to market. And we all need to eat.

Queef I suppose they see him and his family in the same way they view these animals. They want killing.

derxa That’s very kind of you to nurse a lamb back to health. It’s something I do course would have done myself, so it’s great that you have done this. Can I ask, will the lamb now be a family pet?

ColdNeverBotheredMeAnyway

Eh? You think wolves, bears, wildcats and birds of prey have been wiped out by farmers and gamekeepers?

What?

Wolves and bears? Really?

Wildcats and birds of prey still exist

Wildcats hunt small furries - rabbits etc. Birds of prey generally go for small furries, small birds, and some eat roadkill. Easy prey. NOT rooks / crows!

Some of the larger hawks / owls will occasionally bag a crow, but not often - crows and rooks are big birds, vigilant, and often in large groups! They may take one at night - but not nearly enough to even dent a population.

As for foxes killing crows.... just no. How do you think a fox would catch a crow (unless the crow were sick or injured?)

Ooh Emma you are a card!

Eh? You think wolves, bears, wildcats and birds of prey have been wiped out by farmers and gamekeepers?

They were hunted to extinction, yes.

Wildcats and birds of prey do indeed still exist, but wildcats are critically endangered and cling on in a small pocket of remote land. Some birds of prey are the same - they have all been persecuted to the brink, some have recovered, some have not.

In a balanced ecosystem, there are checks and balances on all species. I don't think we are particularly over run with corvids or
pigeons, but we have crops and livestock that we have put in their place which we want to defend.

As a pp said above, some species now need culling in the UK such as deer because we have messed up the ecosystem and removed the natural predators. Do we really want to keep repeating that mistake?

I don't think we are particularly over run with corvids
You don't live in the country, do you? We're over run with the damn things.