Which "class" - Lighthearted!

[dingdongdahlia]

So, my dh is very proud of his roots and is quite happy to tell everybody and anybody about how we're a working class family. Personally, I think class is quite an outdated concept but definitely think there are some things that are still considered wc/mc/us.

I've explained to dh that it's not as clear cut anymore and while he works a blue collar job, it's as much about lifestyle nowadays as your employment.

I say to my husband he's probably closer to middle class now because of tiny little things that make up our lifestyle but he denies it vehemently. I come from a very traditionally middle class family and he says he "dragged me down" (with a cheeky smile).

So, in the most lighthearted way possible, what do you think?

Dh works a very skilled manual job, he has an element of responsibility and although he achieved his role through an apprenticeship I would say his level of knowledge is pretty close to a masters in engineering. He calls himself a spanner monkey.

I have a professional role that is traditionally a middle class career.

We own our own home in a suburb of a city in the south coast. Four bed with garage, almost paid off (we're early 30s).

We eat out at least 10x a month at naice places and stay in nice hotels frequently as a couple (disclaimer: directly linked to my job).

We shop at Ocado and local independent butchers, greengrocers etc. Christmas meat is always bought from the butcher.

We have at least one foreign holiday a year with several other UK breaks throughout the year.

We have a cleaner (he hates this but hates a messy house more).

We have a bean to carafe coffee machine.

Our kids are young but it's looking like we will potentially send them to private school for secondary.

He snowboards and skis. Trying to convince me to take the kids on a skiing holiday (I'm not keen).

We own Barbour jackets (the wax variety that don't have the logo emblazoned all over it).

He's voted Tory in the past.

Obviously this is very lighthearted and a bit of a family joke. Just wanted to see what people think.

I've never met anyone who's had elocution lessons. Regional accents are all over the TV and radio so not exactly endangered.

Yes- i’ve been rich and i’ve been poor but I’ve always been middle class.

But not from the superior classes Pompello if accents are one of the markers??

Everything is a marker.

The whole thing is outdated and ridiculous. Their possessions may not be but people are all equal

Hmm. But my great, great, greats came to the UK on the spud boats. They worked like stink and made money, the great greats made more and the great grandma married into landed gentry and grannie inherited. It was all about graft and learning the skills and buying the skills to grease up the slippery pole. Them that work and duck and dive get. Them that think they're above it don't.

Blibby I agree, media studies should be taught more/better! Sociology is another one that I think is really important.
The Scottish school subject 'Modern Studies' sounds really interesting.

I think nursing and teaching are seen as less MC than other professions because it's mainly women doing them.

I think parental aspirations are so important, WC kids from immigrant backgrounds tend to be luckier in this respect...our parents (mine, my close friebds, DHs) all expected us to go to uni, and they raised their eyebrows at any subjects that weren't deemed sensible enough.

But not from the superior classes Pompello if accents are one of the markers??

Superior?! No one said that middle or upper were superior to working. There are many, many working class people who are quite happy being so and perfectly happy with their regional accents.

Voting tory is a betrayal of any wc roots imo

Traditionally I believe it's your parents lifestyle/level that determines your class but your improvements/achievements are passed on to your kids.

By that definition I am most definitely working class. Both parents left school before 16 and went into jobs not requiring advanced qualifications. Mum was mainly clerical/retail dad a squaddie, prior to being a squaddie a labourer.

Myself and my brother both have undergrad degrees, I have postgrad professional qualifications bro currently working on a masters but in a traditionally blue collar job (police), sis despite being the most intelligent basically flunked school and has never held down a job for more than a year.

However, due to ill health I find I'm in a whole other class below working class which is as yet lacking a decent definition (though some use "underclass") - not lighthearted sorry but it's a real issue particularly where I live which is very deprived with being unemployed for whatever reason being used as a slur and bullying ammo.

It's not about money I agree I know people who are massively well off but most definitely at best working class. The money has come from odd inheritances (long lost relatives), chance (lottery, premium bonds etc) or just happening to end up in an industry that took off but when they went into it wasn't expected to.

Also when you say "professional" do you actually mean you have a profession (a job that requires you to have a specified qualification possibly also registration) or do you mean a white collar job?

I think given the way non wealthy people are being treated in this country right now makes this far from lighthearted.

I don't think either you or your dh realise or appreciate how lucky you and your family are op.

Well said, Graphista.

*Leafy^ Are you saying that the UC don’t think they are superior to the WC?

No, of course not. I'm saying that they're not.

I don’t think the truly UC really think much about the WC at all.

Perhaps it is more pertinent to say that the MC think they are superior to the WC?

Otherwise why are so many people in such a rush to claim to be MC????

Do you know what. For all grannie's sides clamber up the slippery pole, the money doesn't stick if the incumbemts aren't grafters. DH and I are grafters and workers because we love work. That's why we've built on it. Perhaps we are really and truly working class .

I think many people who say class doesn't matter are often those who haven't been discriminated against because of it (eg perception that regional
accent = working class = stupid).

As someone coming from a working class family in the north, moving to London at 18 and going to a university where 70% of the students were privately educated and from the Home Counties... class can make you feel enormously alienated and it doesn't matter how much avocado toast you eat or copies of the observer you buy from Waitrose - class is often an intangible concept. Oddly enough there was a trend at my uni for posh students to pretend to be working class --- it was cool to have "roughed it" 😅

I now live in a nice green area, earn 6 figures, can buy whatever I want from
Planet organic etc --- but my value system is still working class and I would describe myself as that.

No idea how I crossed all of that text out... clearly money doesn't equal typing aptitude haha

Too true, le42. The only ones who think it doesn't matter are those who don't suffer, or haven't suffered, because of their class.

@Leafylow it reminds me of when white people say "there is no racism in my area" --- well not to you ! Doh !

Yes, exactly, le42. Or when people claim that feminism is no longer needed because women are equal now.

I say people, I mean men.

I think that when discussing 'the working class' many people refuse to acknowledge that due to its large demographic there are disparate groups with varying beliefs, aspirations and cultural identities within the class. Perhaps even more so than within the middle classes.

I am working class as are all of my family who comprise of nurse, teachers, small business owners, social workers, police officers, civil servants etc.
I was raised with extra curricular activites, went to private prep and grammar school and was taken to the theatre and ballet by my parents. My home was rammed with books and my parents subscribed to the Guardian.
I'm not at all unusual as many of my friends and family experienced similar upbringings.
Our segment of the WC are vastly different in outlook and culture to those who are usually sneered at discussed on MN.
Its as if by ignoring our existence the WC can be vilified as one underprivileged, workshy, poverty stricken, homogenous mass.
I'm quite happy to be WC and don't consider that my lot in life would be improved in any tangible sense by cultivating an RP accent so that I could be considered MC.

CrushedVelvet I really like and agree with your post and the points you made.

Except the ballet. Going to the ballet is not a thing in Ireland unless your child’s weekly class are putting on a show. Other than that the ballet goes to one or two venues in Ireland once a year and the tickets make great Xmas gifts for the in-laws 😀

SlipperOrchid I wad extremely fortunate to grow up in close proximity to both Liverpool and Manchester, so the English national were easy to get to see.
My fondest memories are of my Dad and I going together when I was a teenager, he died a decade ago and my DH just isn't interested.
I am however taking my children to see a special children's production in Manchester this year so hopefully at least one of them will love it and become my new ballet pal

I think given the way non wealthy people are being treated in this country right now makes this far from lighthearted.

My concern that the whole complicated story around 'class' is used to distract and to deflect us from seeing how unfairly resources are divided and distributed across our population.

It seems to me that there is an undercurrent to suggest that the have-nots somehow do not deserve more, that it is their own 'fault'

Clearly I do not know the answer. I do not currently know how class really helps.

Background and circumstances will make it easier for some to do well than others

There are other factors to take into account, siblings in any one family do not always make exactly the same success of their lives and they must surely at least start in the same class.

Again, how dies class hell the analysis, rather than encourage lazy stereotypes and distract from the premise that resources are not allocated evenly and opportunities are far from equal.