Which "class" - Lighthearted!

[dingdongdahlia]

So, my dh is very proud of his roots and is quite happy to tell everybody and anybody about how we're a working class family. Personally, I think class is quite an outdated concept but definitely think there are some things that are still considered wc/mc/us.

I've explained to dh that it's not as clear cut anymore and while he works a blue collar job, it's as much about lifestyle nowadays as your employment.

I say to my husband he's probably closer to middle class now because of tiny little things that make up our lifestyle but he denies it vehemently. I come from a very traditionally middle class family and he says he "dragged me down" (with a cheeky smile).

So, in the most lighthearted way possible, what do you think?

Dh works a very skilled manual job, he has an element of responsibility and although he achieved his role through an apprenticeship I would say his level of knowledge is pretty close to a masters in engineering. He calls himself a spanner monkey.

I have a professional role that is traditionally a middle class career.

We own our own home in a suburb of a city in the south coast. Four bed with garage, almost paid off (we're early 30s).

We eat out at least 10x a month at naice places and stay in nice hotels frequently as a couple (disclaimer: directly linked to my job).

We shop at Ocado and local independent butchers, greengrocers etc. Christmas meat is always bought from the butcher.

We have at least one foreign holiday a year with several other UK breaks throughout the year.

We have a cleaner (he hates this but hates a messy house more).

We have a bean to carafe coffee machine.

Our kids are young but it's looking like we will potentially send them to private school for secondary.

He snowboards and skis. Trying to convince me to take the kids on a skiing holiday (I'm not keen).

We own Barbour jackets (the wax variety that don't have the logo emblazoned all over it).

He's voted Tory in the past.

Obviously this is very lighthearted and a bit of a family joke. Just wanted to see what people think.

Leafy What are nurses/teachers/clerical staff then?

If they are working class and their children are not working class, what are their children if they grow up to become nurses and teachers too which frequently happens in those particular situations?

I would have thought nursing MC as you need a degree?

I met the last Knight of Glin years back -- the title has died out, as he only had daughters. They put the house up for sale (it had been a hotel for years), but it didn't sell, so was bought back by one of his daughters, who is married to Dominic West.

I think they may have sold it again since, come to think of it. The gardens alone would be a FT job for several people.

I think of nurses and teachers as liwer middle to middle. Depends on their backgrounds. MIL was a deputy head but I'd say she was working class with middle class aspirations. I know other teachers who were the daughters of doctors/solicitors and I'd say they were middle class and their lufestyles have drpended on the occupations of their partners.

Generally I think teachers, nurses, social workers occupy a do gooding class of their own where they resent those who have a few bob for having it and enjoy implying they shouldn't because unlike them others aren't as well read or as cultured as them.

I'd rather have a night out with market trades and have a belly laugh tbh.

Therefore a degree is the marker? That is interesting. A degree in zoology and an arts degree are equal? They are both middle class? I genuinely cannot get my head around this at all.

I think you're being being deliberately obtuse

No I simply disagree with you.

The children would be middle, slipper. The parents might be middle or working, it depends on their background.

No one thing is the marker, but I agree with PPs that nursing & teaching are usually middle class professions.

It's a mixture of education, your parents' education, your profession, your parents' profession, your income, your parents' income, the culture you were brought up in, who you were brought up by, the house you grew up in, the house you live in now, your accent, your social activity preferences, the adjectives you use, the aspirations which were set for you, and many more I will have missed.

All of them come together to define a class. No one seems to be able to put it into words, but an English person can almost always peg the class of a stranger within 5 minutes of speaking to them. It's an ingrained knowledge and often used to judge people, whether it be through snobbery or inverse snobbery.

I genuinely cannot get my head around this at all. Are you English? Apologies if you've already said.

I think you're being being deliberately obtuse

No I simply disagree with you.

You weren't disagreeing, you were misrepresenting what I'd said.

No I’m not English.

A nurse and teacher are so often undervalued and underpaid. They are respected but I am surprised they are in the same class as an equity analyst or GP.

Ah right. Well that explains why you cannot understand the system and how it works to keep the working class down.

You tell me. Descended in bastardy from colonial governors, distant cousin to HH Asquith, HGV driver, cafetiere, law degree, no mortgage, possess tweed and hiviz jackets, fat, coarse, arrogant, left wing, eats langoustines and dripping, variable accent, never washes car, lives on council estate in pit village.

A nurse and teacher are so often undervalued and underpaid. They are respected but I am surprised they are in the same class as an equity analyst or GP.

But they do require a degree. They aren't your typical working class jobs, although they can be done by working class people.

I wouldn’t have said a nurse was middle class, tbh.

Some of the most upper middle class people I know are/were nurses.

It is a profession that spans class imo.

It is a profession that spans class imo.

Yes, I'd agree with this. It's one of the few that does really.

I think nursing is maybe less of a posh career than it used to be. There was a right mix looking after my mum when she was in hospital.

It is, of course, poverty which results in a lower life expectancy, and it is prominently the working class who are in poverty,

So why bother with the 'class' analysis , rather than refer to the evils of poverty, the causes and solutions to poverty?

what does the overlay of class add to the analysis?

Nurses and teachers used to be vocational and did not require a degree.

Some v v clever people have become nurses and teachers because that's what they had a passion to do. Even is my generation (baby boomer) there was a sexist agenda that pointed clever girls to nursing rather than medicine). That has been a huge changer I think vis a vis the perceived competence of the role.

Medicine: A* x 4
Nursing: ABB for the most prestigious courses; primary teaching rather less unless it starts with Education at Homerton.

It is, of course, poverty which results in a lower life expectancy, and it is prominently the working class who are in poverty,

So why bother with the 'class' analysis , rather than refer to the evils of poverty, the causes and solutions to poverty?

what does the overlay of class add to the analysis?

Why are some people in poverty and others not? What do the people in poverty have in common? Often it is that their life chances have been hindered by being born working class. The copied text is referring to life expectancy alone, not education & career expectations and opportunities.

*So why bother with the 'class' analysis , rather than refer to the evils of poverty, the causes and solutions to poverty?

what does the overlay of class add to the analysis?*

Yes there seems to be confusion between poverty and working class where I thought they were very different t things.

Instead of taking nursing as the example (and IMO it is very much a working class profession these days), I will take the civil service. There is a large difference between management and clerical staff. Yet somebody can become a manager due to length of service. Are they both middle class? If somebody works in a bank they are in the service industry? Yet there are stockbrokers tied to banks. Are they also in the service industry. Ate they equal? Yet both may have started out with a basic arts degree. Both may have completed banking exams.

Factors that result in poverty include health issues, mental health problems, drug dependency, loss of employment etc and IMO primarily a lack of family support both emotional and practical.

Hmm, interesting leafy. I have a sil brought up by a deputy head and engineer who went to an RG uni and whom mil never fails to brag about.

She and her dh work 4 days between them, the dc have nothing, she whinges continually andc26 years ago had a major go at me for marrying her bro, a cqpitalist bastard. Since she has not hesitated to tap him up for a grand or three.

Is she wc or mc. My view bone idle c. BIC, cheap like the pen, except it also whibes whilst doing what it ought.

Yes there seems to be confusion between poverty and working class where I thought they were very different t things.

Wealth alone does not define class, but it inevitably forms an important part of it. Someone raised working class with all the culture & attitudes that entails, with parents who are not rich, could win millions on the lottery or become a Premier League footballer but would remain working class. They are an exception in that they are working class and rich.

An upper class person born into the aristocracy could gamble & drink away their inheritance and might end up requiring social housing and benefits. They would remain upper class. They are an exception in that they are upper class and poor.

Wayne Rooney would not be welcome in Boodle's, and the unnamed poor aristocrat would be gossiped about, because people would know immediately that she was different. Wealth is a part of the class system, only one part, but a significant part. They are definitely not very different things, there's a huge overlap.

Instead of taking nursing as the example (and IMO it is very much a working class profession these days), I will take the civil service. There is a large difference between management and clerical staff. Yet somebody can become a manager due to length of service. Are they both middle class? If somebody works in a bank they are in the service industry? Yet there are stockbrokers tied to banks. Are they also in the service industry. Ate they equal? Yet both may have started out with a basic arts degree. Both may have completed banking exams.

The class system is not very fluid. A promotion does not change your class, nor does buying a house or eating a coissant. A stockbroker would be judged very differently to someone working in a bank as a cashier. There would be giveaways as to what class they were before you learnt of their professions.

So elocution classes are terribly important in the UK? Regional accents are considered inferior? What a travesty to make all accents neutral.