Which "class" - Lighthearted!

[dingdongdahlia]

So, my dh is very proud of his roots and is quite happy to tell everybody and anybody about how we're a working class family. Personally, I think class is quite an outdated concept but definitely think there are some things that are still considered wc/mc/us.

I've explained to dh that it's not as clear cut anymore and while he works a blue collar job, it's as much about lifestyle nowadays as your employment.

I say to my husband he's probably closer to middle class now because of tiny little things that make up our lifestyle but he denies it vehemently. I come from a very traditionally middle class family and he says he "dragged me down" (with a cheeky smile).

So, in the most lighthearted way possible, what do you think?

Dh works a very skilled manual job, he has an element of responsibility and although he achieved his role through an apprenticeship I would say his level of knowledge is pretty close to a masters in engineering. He calls himself a spanner monkey.

I have a professional role that is traditionally a middle class career.

We own our own home in a suburb of a city in the south coast. Four bed with garage, almost paid off (we're early 30s).

We eat out at least 10x a month at naice places and stay in nice hotels frequently as a couple (disclaimer: directly linked to my job).

We shop at Ocado and local independent butchers, greengrocers etc. Christmas meat is always bought from the butcher.

We have at least one foreign holiday a year with several other UK breaks throughout the year.

We have a cleaner (he hates this but hates a messy house more).

We have a bean to carafe coffee machine.

Our kids are young but it's looking like we will potentially send them to private school for secondary.

He snowboards and skis. Trying to convince me to take the kids on a skiing holiday (I'm not keen).

We own Barbour jackets (the wax variety that don't have the logo emblazoned all over it).

He's voted Tory in the past.

Obviously this is very lighthearted and a bit of a family joke. Just wanted to see what people think.

Your husband has every reason to be proud of himself. Despite not having the privilege, advantage and lifestyle of a MC upbringing he has been very successful.
I do feel slightly exasperated by people who are proud of nothing more than being born MC and having middle class indicators. What is
there to be proud of? For the most part traditionally MC people have been raised with aspirations and financial support. Seriously, why does that advantage give them the right to look down upon and sneer if you use a different word for loo or napkin?
Hollow victory you sound the worst kind of snob ( you might be WC making observations- hard to tell on a forum) and sounds like you are clinging on to a set of very fixed markers which may have worked before a greater social mobility.
Your idea that the family are WC because the husband has a 'trade' is also flawed. Would you say that if a MC man with a profession had married a secretary? I think not. Your views are very sexist!

Do people still believe a woman takes her husband's class?

Seemed appropriately antiquated thinking and in the spirit given this woman and her husband actually discuss what class they are!

I still don't know what a bean to carafe coffee machine is. Or why owning one makes you MC.

OP I think a lot of this boils down to the fact that you, as I, come from a varied background. As such, we haven't had class beliefs drummed into us as part of our identity.

Similar to you, my grandparents were a mix of working class (real poverty), and upper middle class (wealthy, parents owned a large business).
Most of the family since have been creative types who didn't work in any traditional industry/profession, so impossible to pigeonhole.
I'm the first person on our side to go to university, but live in ex-council house as a SAHM with a blue-collar skilled DH (who also has a degree).
Most people who met me would assume I'm MC, and I've grown up being called 'posh'. Probably WC tho.
I agree class still has a negative impact on society, but quite a lot of us just don't fit it's parameters any more, and to our day-to-day life it's irrelevant.

Crushedvelvetcouch
I mentioned the ballet.

Of course you can attend notwithstanding your choice of couch . I meant that the OP had focused on the material aspects rather than others.

Llongyfarchiadau

We can also allude to irony with our choice of username
But thanks for letting me in to see the ballet all the same.

Degrees have become totally devalued since 50%of the population go to uni rather than 5-10% in the late 60s.
I don't really understand why the op is so obsessed with convincing people, including g her own dh, that she's not wc despite being married to a tradesman. It's not something to be ashamed of and no carafe of coffee will change that

So Hollow is that European royal who married a circus performer now WC? If it all depends on your spouse's profession.
Prince Harry married an actress, so he must be WC too?

I don't understand either Hollowvictory.
It does seem particular to this forum to be utterly obsessed with not being seen to be working class.
I find it bemusing but then I am working class and have no aspirations to the contrary.

Hollow victory being married to a 'tradesman ' does not make her WC. This is so sexist!

I have no idea who the circus royal is so can't comment . But no, actresses and actors can be any class. However Meghan is American and therefore not part of the UK class system as per Grace Kellym

Having said that, my DH is a SAHD so perhaps I have delusions of grandeur and am actually underclass....

Yes being married to a tradesman does make you wc. It may be sexist but the class system is hardly built on equality of opportunity now is it? Its sexist and often racist.

Ah, but you're talking about degrees in terms of 'usefulness' or 'employability' , slipper, which has nothing to do with where your degree choice sits on the 'class' spectrum.

Not really. I wasn’t referring to it interns of usefulness although employability perhaps. When someone says they have a degree in, say maths, people respect that. It shows aptitude, it is seen as difficult. People tend to fall into art degrees because they didn’t get into other courses. They are not equal degrees. Or maybe in the U.K. they are?

@CountFosco Huge thanks for noticing my error - my clapped-out keyboard has a dodgy zero, of course I meant 400000.

But you're wrong about nobody having 40 acres of moorland. We did, it was all that was left after cash-strapped ancestors flogged the estate.

Thankfully the house remained for another generation or two, together with 40 acres surrounding the house. We barely noticed, even Papa's morning constitution was unaffected.

People tend to fall into art degrees because they didn’t get into other courses.

Ouch.

'WC' isn't something to be ashamed of but it is definitely sneered at or looked down on by some 'mc'. I think as long as people like Hollow victory hold on to such a fixed set of markers,people will always aspire to break free of the pigeon hole they have been put in.

Exploration2018
Granted, but with respect that is the problem of the 'sneering' members of the MC.

Like it or not, and I fear the sneery contingent do rather dislike it; large swathes of the WC are living comfortable, contented, culturally rich lives completely devoid of any desire to be considered MC.

Crushed velvetcouch yes I agree, not all will want to ' break free' a lot will not care about it at all and look upon such judgement as rather silly and superficial.

I suppose it seems silly because there isn't anything to particularly wish to 'break away' from.

Frankly, its a long time since we were all relegated to performing manual labour and living in crowded conditions

Ouch.

Not at all. DH and I both have arts degrees. Neither of us met the requirements of the courses we wanted. My point was if degrees are taken as a marker of the U.K. class system, it seems unfair to throw them all into the same pot.

The mc who matter don't generally give a toss.

As a woman who was "finished", droppedbout of a redbrick and has had two six figure careers, married to a working class bloke who went to a comp, and has made millions, and whose mother's parents were servants and whose father's were miners - my response is what a lot of bollocks.

Nobody who matters actually gives a flying fuck.

In that case OhTheRoses there's a marked over representation of those middle class, who by your estimation 'don't matter', here on MN.
Honestly, I frequent many varying forums but only here is there such pervasive self consciousness regarding being seen to be MC.
I find it quite perculiar that such people so ftrquently convene to discuss the issue with such fervour, still, here we are again.

This was the old 'class calculator' mentioned before: www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22000973

They have 7 class definitions, based on economic (income, house value, savings), social (number and type of friends you have) and cultural (type of cultural activities and actives you do) factors. Traditional it was based on wealth, education and occupation.

Elite - the most privileged group in the UK, distinct from the other six classes through its wealth. This group has the highest levels of all three capitals

Established middle class - the second wealthiest, scoring highly on all three capitals. The largest and most gregarious group, scoring second highest for cultural capital

Technical middle class - a small, distinctive new class group which is prosperous but scores low for social and cultural capital. Distinguished by its social isolation and cultural apathy

New affluent workers - a young class group which is socially and culturally active, with middling levels of economic capital

Traditional working class - scores low on all forms of capital, but is not completely deprived. Its members have reasonably high house values, explained by this group having the oldest average age at 66

Emergent service workers - a new, young, urban group which is relatively poor but has high social and cultural capital

Precariat, or precarious proletariat - the poorest, most deprived class, scoring low for social and cultural capital

We came out as elite. No shit Sherlock